18th Sep 2016 - Mount Panorama Vintage Revival (1 Viewer)

[m4nu]

I am a bit confused now, what forum we should use, but, well, I'll just post it in both then

So, in the 1st race 2scoops and Me finished in the opposite order, then what the results showed.
So I was 4th, 2scoops 5th.

He beat be on the last lap, with a cool move, just to hit the wall later, and loose enough speed, that I was able to pass him.
Then in the last corner i got a bit sideways, and the finish was tight.

Also, i very much enjoyed the event, it is a nice little change from the usual.

Well the idea was that we are moving everything to here So we (admins) won't be much in our old thread around. Feel free to post your race report also in the old forum but this all here will be the new home of RSR

 

[Blue Monkey]

Very unlucky event for me, partially because imo multiclass (especially in rain) doesnt work well in Bathurst.

Race 1: Puncture after Turn 1
Race 2: Must be some invisble part in the wall there that sent me spinning and caused a huge crash
Race 3: Laggy laiders gives me huge damage so I cant even keep up in the slipstream

I also need to work on getting the car stopped when I crash ...

@miagi Sry for Race 2 last corner collision, as you see I was correcting the car and couldnt avoid the collision anymore.
On the other side I also have to say to that "And than he thinks that he can out brake the light BMW with that Mercedes into last corner": And you just shut completely the door in the hope I wasnt on the inside anymore ...

@Laiders Dont worry because of the lagging, can happen

Looking forward to the next ranked race

 

[Pamellaaa]

Uploads complete, Race 1:
Race 2:
Race 3:

 

[InsaneBase]

Was a very fun stream yesterday.

 

[2scoops]

Good result in the first race, was going to take it easy in the wet race and try and move forward with mistakes. Didn't quite go to plan, it's difficult to race on the roof. I liked the Crewchief's optimism though

 

[miagi]

And than he thinks that he can out brake the light BMW with that Mercedes into last corner": And you just shut completely the door in the hope I wasnt on the inside anymore ...

We were approaching the corner at the same speed and the BMW can brake later sure I drive the normal line. Also the contact was as my car was already on the straight, straight out. Not at the apex.
Also if we had Penalties turned on, you wouldn't be even close to me in the last corner seeing that you overshoot The Case. That would have been a 5 sec penalty for you.

 

[Laiders]

Enjoyed last night, good combo and event format I thought. Was surprised more people didn't save the Merc for the rain, it was by far the easiest car to drive in the rain on default setup, less effected by the wet than the lighter cars and super stable. It can run in the 38s in the rain without taking risks on the kerbs or running too close to the wall.

I had some good dicing last night, but I have to say overall I wasn't impressed with the driving standards of a few members. I think Blue Monkey's video is a good example of what not to do.

First of all Blue Monkey sorry for the lag spike that did the damage to you, I had a similar one going into T2 on the first lap, I can see from your point of view my car wasn't there, it did look to me like you just drove into the back of me.

With that being said, I think your highlights video illustrates the over driving that is ruining the racing. In the video I counted 22 pieces of car to car contact (2 with me due to lag you could not have avoided), 4 wall hits and 3 off tracks. That's 29 incidents in footage posted from only 6 laps. I'm not saying that all of these could have been avoided or were your fault, but having nearly 5 incidents a lap is never going to be healthy. To get a wall bug you have to be running very close to the wall in the first place, on the first lap, in the wet, when you were already in a safe second place.

Two moments of particular note that are completely inexcusable in my book are:
1. At 3.20 when rolling backwards you deliberately steer left to bring the car back onto the track, this results in the big crash on the mountain. Did you really think the 19 cars behind were going to be able to drive around you? If you had stood on the brakes and kept the wheel straight the big crash would not have happened and you would have been guaranteed third place if you just drove sensibly, there were only 3 Mercs in the race and they're nearly 10 seconds a lap faster than the Escort in the wet.

2. At 5.20 "Bumpdrafting xD" (as you caption it at 3.05 in the video), just what were you thinking deliberately hitting a car going into T2? It was a wet, ranked, race and the guys in the BMWs are having a proper race. Just because you've thrown away your race does not mean you can play destruction derby with the rest of the field who are trying to race. Especially given the lag and contact issues with Project Cars do you really think this is a good idea?

There are many other points in this video where you make little or no effort to avoid driving into other cars.

I know we're going to take more risks in sim-racing than real life, there are no bills to pay and you can't get hurt, but there comes a point when you'll never get a result and the racing is ruined for all as a result. It doesn't actually need contact and crashes to ruin the racing, just simply not trusting someone to close the door on you, or to not "bumpdraft" you means that you cannot afford to run close together.

Frankly I've had much better racing in both iRacing ranked races and the RSR induction nights, maybe we do need some form of incentive not to drive like a mad man and crash into everything that moves. As sad as it sounds I think slow downs might be a good idea to keep people somewhat in check and make it really not worth running wide.

You weren't the only driver over driving it last night, but you are routinely called out on Teamspeak and did choose to post this video.

/Rant over, lets have a cleaner race next time.

 

[Jonno]

HERES 2 OF MY REPLAYS NO POINT ON THE 3RD ONE AS I FOUND SOME EXPLODING BARRIERS IN THAT ONE LOL

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfCjXAdYSsPC1kFzyoTb0jg

 

[Blue Monkey]

Enjoyed last night, good combo and event format I thought. Was surprised more people didn't save the Merc for the rain, it was by far the easiest car to drive in the rain on default setup, less effected by the wet than the lighter cars and super stable. It can run in the 38s in the rain without taking risks on the kerbs or running too close to the wall.

I had some good dicing last night, but I have to say overall I wasn't impressed with the driving standards of a few members. I think Blue Monkey's video is a good example of what not to do.

First of all Blue Monkey sorry for the lag spike that did the damage to you, I had a similar one going into T2 on the first lap, I can see from your point of view my car wasn't there, it did look to me like you just drove into the back of me.

With that being said, I think your highlights video illustrates the over driving that is ruining the racing. In the video I counted 22 pieces of car to car contact (2 with me due to lag you could not have avoided), 4 wall hits and 3 off tracks. That's 29 incidents in footage posted from only 6 laps. I'm not saying that all of these could have been avoided or were your fault, but having nearly 5 incidents a lap is never going to be healthy. To get a wall bug you have to be running very close to the wall in the first place, on the first lap, in the wet, when you were already in a safe second place.

Two moments of particular note that are completely inexcusable in my book are:
1. At 3.20 when rolling backwards you deliberately steer left to bring the car back onto the track, this results in the big crash on the mountain. Did you really think the 19 cars behind were going to be able to drive around you? If you had stood on the brakes and kept the wheel straight the big crash would not have happened and you would have been guaranteed third place if you just drove sensibly, there were only 3 Mercs in the race and they're nearly 10 seconds a lap faster than the Escort in the wet.

2. At 5.20 "Bumpdrafting xD" (as you caption it at 3.05 in the video), just what were you thinking deliberately hitting a car going into T2? It was a wet, ranked, race and the guys in the BMWs are having a proper race. Just because you've thrown away your race does not mean you can play destruction derby with the rest of the field who are trying to race. Especially given the lag and contact issues with Project Cars do you really think this is a good idea?

There are many other points in this video where you make little or no effort to avoid driving into other cars.

I know we're going to take more risks in sim-racing than real life, there are no bills to pay and you can't get hurt, but there comes a point when you'll never get a result and the racing is ruined for all as a result. It doesn't actually need contact and crashes to ruin the racing, just simply not trusting someone to close the door on you, or to not "bumpdraft" you means that you cannot afford to run close together.

Frankly I've had much better racing in both iRacing ranked races and the RSR induction nights, maybe we do need some form of incentive not to drive like a mad man and crash into everything that moves. As sad as it sounds I think slow downs might be a good idea to keep people somewhat in check and make it really not worth running wide.

You weren't the only driver over driving it last night, but you are routinely called out on Teamspeak and did choose to post this video.

/Rant over, lets have a cleaner race next time.

Yep accusing me but at the same you did a big mess in Turn 1 of Race 2. You hit me in Turn 1, sending me nearly into a spin in which I hit t0daY and that sends him wide and losing the car which in the end caused in a huge contact in which I was in the sandwich and Pamellaaa got hit hard. And then you just bump your way through the field until youre in the lead. And you tell me I overdid it ...

Not even mentioning those extreme hits with lags - so 10+ contacts alone are because of you ...

Bumpdrafting as I did it with Husqvarman was an acceptable risk, I have a good deal of experience with that in PCARS - after the race I consulted though with the admins about the topic as I wanted to know what the rules & their POV. Problems with bumpdrafting:
Sticky cars / Magnet effect
Some cars are going sideways when being bumpdrafted not perfectly
It can happen that the car pushing getting front aero damage / radiator damage
Further you call it "deliberate hitting" - sounds like you just dont like it ... its nothing against the rules but I still dont recommend doing it.

Yep I noticed that with steering left aswell, but that was not the main problem ; I let off the brakes at 1 point (you can see that in the bottom right)
I usually steer left and try to get the right way in PCARS immediately, that means getting off the wall (in PCARS theyre sticky) - I do that to reduce the time standing around and being a danger to anyone.
As previously said not the best way of doing it, but in the end Bathurst is very tight and there is little running off area.

I can tell you that many will here agree with me: iRacing is a mess when it comes to clean racing. What I experienced in R, D, C class (Road) is beyond ridiculous at some times. Sometimes deliberate ramming etc. RSR is much better here even if that race is imo an exception.

"There are many other points in this video where you make little or no effort to avoid driving into other cars." - blablabla - sounds someone is angry at me

Further you accuse me litterally of "Just because you've thrown away your race does not mean you can play destruction derby with the rest of the field who are trying to race." - that shows your attitude towards me - I dont know where your problem is with me (dont tell me that it is because of that race, it would really disappoint me)!

 

[Jonno]

think i only had one little moment in race 3 i think with monkey it was a genuine error on my half i thought i had room to tuck back under him but turns out he wasn't quite passed me lol how ever i did slow to let him passed on start finish even tho it cost me 2 places lol...

 

[Laiders]

Yep accusing me but at the same you did a big mess in Turn 1 of Race 2. You hit me in Turn 1, sending me nearly into a spin in which I hit t0daY and that sends him wide and losing the car which in the end caused in a huge contact in which I was in the sandwich and Pamellaaa got hit hard. And then you just bump your way through the field until youre in the lead. And you tell me I overdid it ...

Watch the start from Manu's mirrors (55:11 onwards) and your onboard (1:58).

First you just drive into the back of Pamelaaa and then have to slow down as a result, you leave a big gap that I drive into before the braking point. If you had been alert and had good spacial awareness we wouldn't have collided. In hindsight going 3 wide off the start line is definitely risky, but certainly something you wouldn't think twice about doing!

The actual accident is then caused by a combination of:
1. Manu has run wide as a result of T1 contact/trying to go round the outside of Dave, from his video it doesn't look like he was effected by the contact between yourself & I under braking. Pamelaaa is on the inside. It is obvious that the gap on the outside of the track is not going to fit both your Merc and Manu's BMW without hitting Pamelaaa.
2. You decide to apply full throttle coming out of T1, if you had delayed a bit on getting the power down you would have stayed behind Pamelaaa and been able to swerve in behind him.
3. Manu comes back onto the track, arguably much sooner than he should have done into the way of cars that are now accelerating out of T1.
4. This inevitably leads to a crash. You were off the brakes 5 seconds before the impact, so in my view the bit of contact we did had didn't actually lead to the crash. It was your decision to accelerate into the disappearing gap, you were at full throttle when the collision occurred.

Then notice for T2 I brake slightly earlier than normal to go through the corner without using the full grip available, this is so I have room to manoeuvre, (seems sensible on the first lap of a wet race). Both of the cars ahead go in too hot and run wide and because I used the extra caution I'm able to tighten my line and nip up the inside to take the lead. Had I gone in committed to T2 I would have been at risk of spinning taking avoiding action or could have hit you.

I think my second race was a pretty much textbook wet race, after T2 I didn't take excessive kerb and left a safe distance to the wall allowing me to win by 40+ seconds, by dint of being in the best car and not smashing it up on the first lap, with a 3s/lap comfort window vs. my "pushing it" pace.

After T2 you then hit the wall twice in quick succession. The second time you got hit by a bug in pCars. Real life has plenty of bugs with walls, so drivers tend to stay out of them...

This then ended in disaster for half the field because you were too greedy and by your own admission turned left to "try and get the right way immediately". Unless you are incredibly selfish your first reaction should be to get the car stopped as safely as possible and wait for the entire field to pass you.

If you don't believe that people actually stop and wait then look at Manu's video from 32.05, you'll find me sat in T2 waiting for a safe rejoin and SirHunterOne doing the same in T3. That was the only mistake I really regret making all evening, spinning in T2 by pushing too hard, when there was far more to loose from a spin than I could have possibly gained from pushing.

Trust me my attitude towards you has been formed by a lot more than this race. Both from how you race with me and watching you race with others.

If you & others really think the way you were driving last night is in the spirit of RSR then I need to find somewhere else to go racing.

The Skip Barber in iRacing produces way better racing than what we had last night, much closer, and most of the cars make it to the end in a one hit and your out damage formula. The racing is great both in ranked races and league races (the UK series runs weekly with 40+ cars!).

 

[Blue Monkey]

Watch the start from Manu's mirrors (55:11 onwards) and your onboard (1:58).

First you just drive into the back of Pamelaaa and then have to slow down as a result, you leave a big gap that I drive into before the braking point. If you had been alert and had good spacial awareness we wouldn't have collided. In hindsight going 3 wide off the start line is definitely risky, but certainly something you wouldn't think twice about doing!

The actual accident is then caused by a combination of:
1. Manu has run wide as a result of T1 contact/trying to go round the outside of Dave, from his video it doesn't look like he was effected by the contact between yourself & I under braking. Pamelaaa is on the inside. It is obvious that the gap on the outside of the track is not going to fit both your Merc and Manu's BMW without hitting Pamelaaa.
2. You decide to apply full throttle coming out of T1, if you had delayed a bit on getting the power down you would have stayed behind Pamelaaa and been able to swerve in behind him.
3. Manu comes back onto the track, arguably much sooner than he should have done into the way of cars that are now accelerating out of T1.
4. This inevitably leads to a crash. You were off the brakes 5 seconds before the impact, so in my view the bit of contact we did had didn't actually lead to the crash. It was your decision to accelerate into the disappearing gap, you were at full throttle when the collision occurred.

Then notice for T2 I brake slightly earlier than normal to go through the corner without using the full grip available, this is so I have room to manoeuvre, (seems sensible on the first lap of a wet race). Both of the cars ahead go in too hot and run wide and because I used the extra caution I'm able to tighten my line and nip up the inside to take the lead. Had I gone in committed to T2 I would have been at risk of spinning taking avoiding action or could have hit you.

I think my second race was a pretty much textbook wet race, after T2 I didn't take excessive kerb and left a safe distance to the wall allowing me to win by 40+ seconds, by dint of being in the best car and not smashing it up on the first lap, with a 3s/lap comfort window vs. my "pushing it" pace.

After T2 you then hit the wall twice in quick succession. The second time you got hit by a bug in pCars. Real life has plenty of bugs with walls, so drivers tend to stay out of them...

This then ended in disaster for half the field because you were too greedy and by your own admission turned left to "try and get the right way immediately". Unless you are incredibly selfish your first reaction should be to get the car stopped as safely as possible and wait for the entire field to pass you.

If you don't believe that people actually stop and wait then look at Manu's video from 32.05, you'll find me sat in T2 waiting for a safe rejoin and SirHunterOne doing the same in T3. That was the only mistake I really regret making all evening, spinning in T2 by pushing too hard, when there was far more to loose from a spin than I could have possibly gained from pushing.

Trust me my attitude towards you has been formed by a lot more than this race. Both from how you race with me and watching you race with others.

If you & others really think the way you were driving last night is in the spirit of RSR then I need to find somewhere else to go racing.

The Skip Barber in iRacing produces way better racing than what we had last night, much closer, and most of the cars make it to the end in a one hit and your out damage formula. The racing is great both in ranked races and league races (the UK series runs weekly with 40+ cars!).

I had minimal contact with Pamellaaa, in which the magnet effect made it much worse

You do realize that you tapped me on the rear, thats why I nearly lost control under braking and hit Manu to my right (interestingly from what i saw in Manus onboard he never received that tap ...)
Not to mention that you can see in my mirror that you nearly rammed the BMW into the wall after Turn 1 on the straight and had contact into Turn 3 because you didnt left enough room to the inside

I didnt and couldnt expect that Manu rejoins like that, I assume he lost control on the kerb (check his replay, its on page 2 of this thread and then you see that he actually spun out on the kerb - I wouldnt expect you to properly check that fact). That can happen, its racing. Blaming me for such an unexpected turn of events is just low from your side. As said it seems you cant stay objective and you have something against me personally.

I could also say from the first 4 corners of your race 2:
You shouldnt have tapped me, you shouldnt go 3 wide, you should leave enough room, you shouldnt kiss the wall
Did I sofar? No! But obviously you cant see your own mistakes and you have to be reminded.

"Real life has plenty of bugs with walls, so drivers tend to stay out of them..." - bugs like I had? Hell no ...

"This then ended in disaster for half the field because you were too greedy and by your own admission turned left to "try and get the right way immediately". Unless you are incredibly selfish your first reaction should be to get the car stopped as safely as possible and wait for the entire field to pass you." - what a bullshit youre talking...
I didnt hit the wall on my screen, this is supported by the fact that acceleration was constant and not interrupted. There are no sparks, no collision sounds and no smoke. I did ride the wall as close as I could, yes, in the end this is a race and you want normally to use the full track (if its not slowing you down). I chose the risks. And nobody would expect to hit such a (game) bug.
I said i normally do that and normally its no problem as I dont spin back on the track, just the right direction. In this case it was a problem as I didnt brake enough and the track is so narrow that I actually accidentally rejoined the track. This can happen, people do mistakes, we dont crash perfectly. Accusing me of doing it out of greediness is just ridiculous - in the end you accuse me of doing it on purpose.

"If you & others really think the way you were driving last night is in the spirit of RSR then I need to find somewhere else to go racing." - If you wanna say that that event shouldnt be the norm with RSR, i totally agree - normally it isnt like that in RSR. I see partially the cause of that with the track and car combination. In the end it was kinda multiclass (good example is that Merc was 25 kph faster on the straights than the BMW). Bathurst is imo no good place for multiplayer multiclass.

I expect that Thursdays Event (Grand Touring Cup) will be much better and Im looking forward to it.

Postedit:
"I very clearly did not tap you on the rear. The responsibility for this piece of contact is at least 50/50 between us,..." Nice contradicting here - so you say there was no tap, but on the other side you clearly say there was contact ... what now?
On my side you hit me as i hit Pamellaaa, it was enough to unsettle the car and causing me nearly to lose it.

 

[SillySausage]

What a great success and awesome fun those races were the other night! I'm so glad the fun, different race layout worked so well and made such close racing possible. We'll definitely have to try this style again with a new car/track combo in the future. The entirely of each race for me could be considered a highlight, especially the incredibly close racing with @Battenberg in particular amongst others.

Race 1 was the most 'boring' for me (which was far from boring), battling for P1, 2 & 3 for all 5 laps between Battenberg, Nooonotreally & myself with a bumper-to-bumper finish across the line in P3.

Race 2 was another fantastic all out touring car bash right on the limit for 5 laps. A bad crash in turn 1, lap 1 saw me drop immediately to P20 but enabled me to have lots of fun fighting my way back through the pack. I swear Battenberg & I must be magnetised or something, no matter what happens and what incidents we both have on track we always eventually end up on each others doors.

Race 3 saw me have yet another lap 1, turn 1 incident, this time being forced off track by people trying to go 4 wide up Mountain Straight which I wasn't too happy about but once again this enabled me to have so more awesome recovery racing, once again with Battenberg where I got to witness surely one of the overtakes of the year so far (the kind of overtake Battenberg put on SirHunterOne is almost considered a rite of passage into 'legend' status for IRL Bathurst drivers just so you know).

Here's my highlights video of the races, my full version will be up in a couple of days which would well be worth a watch as it was all worthy of a highlight reel.


The part you're looking for in particular Battenberg is @18:55.

 

[Laiders]

You do realize that you tapped me on the rear, thats why I nearly lost control under braking and hit Manu to my right (interestingly from what i saw in Manus onboard he never received that tap ...)

I very clearly did not tap you on the rear. The responsibility for this piece of contact is at least 50/50 between us, in hindsight I would have kept a foot or so tighter to the left, but would be under no obligation to do so under any normal rules of racing.

Here you're clearly back in control, doing 62km/h near the apex and could have been cautious on the throttle. It is obvious at this point Manu is about to leave the track.

By this point you and Manu have chosen actions that have caused the crash. He's clearly heading back onto the track. You're at full throttle accelerating hard on the outside kerb.

Do you still seriously think I caused this?

I hope you're just too big headed to ever accept responsibility and say sorry, rather than actually unable to recognise that the actions you took allowed this accident to happen.

I expect that Thursdays Event (Grand Touring Cup) will be much better and Im looking forward to it.

I won't be out for the upcoming GT3 races, far too much time and effort to learn and setup those cars just to have a crash fest. I think the next ranked race I'll do will probably be the BMW at Cadwell, although the event name seems pretty inappropriate to me.

I have to say having re-read the first paragraph of the "Diving Standards" I do wonder if I am in the right place. I think "push'n'shove" is OK is an unwise statement to make in the driving standards. My expectation, that seems to be echoed by many of the members and admins here is that a little bit of accidental contact happens when you're racing hard and that is to be expected, we don't need a stewards enquiry every time two cars touch.

 

[m4nu]

@Laiders and @Blue Monkey it is enough now. If you want to discuss any incidents during the race feel free to use our Steward Room. After the race the thread should be used for race reports or videos.