DD wheel advice (1 Viewer)

[Exited]

Hey guys,

the last weeks I was thinking about what I will do if my T300 maybe will stop working in the near future (you always need excuses, why you need something )
Googled a little bit about DD wheels and in the end I found two options for my budget and current rig

1. The Fanatec DD1 PS4 kit
2. Simucube 2 Pro with a Wireless wheel

For myself both wheels have their pros and cons (like everything in this world )...

Fanatec:
+ Fanatec eco system
+ little bit cheaper than the Simucube 2 Pro
+ there is a decent mount available for my Sim Lab Gt1 Evo
- rumoured not so good FFB than SC2 Pro
- bigger than the SC2 Pro
- sometimes play/flex in the QR
- blue alcantara wheel...

Simucube 2:
+ Smaller than DD1
+ rumoured better and more responsive FFB than DD1
+ free wheel choice
- more expensive than DD1
- no mount for the GT1 Evo available
- two power supplies
- rumoured buggy software

Is there anybody in this forum who has experience with both wheels?
For the people, who own one of the wheels, are you pleased with you choice and would you recommend your choice?

 

[Born2BSlow]

Watch the Sim Racing Garage reviews of both, that guy (Barry) doesn't miss anything. I personally went for an accuforce v2 based on price and how good the software is. Once you're into DD wheels it's all about the software because any of them can rip your arm off.

 

[fab. ICEMAN]

I only have the DD1 so can't say anything about the Simucube, but can comment on a few points:

- cannot confirm any flex in the QR - I've read about it too but I wonder how there should be flex if you tighten the golden screw strong enough. one thing I experienced though, that if I had the extra securing-screw in, I recognized something that felt like a little play - but that was just the casing of the QR bouncing against that screw. I removed it and had no issues since then.
- I personally don't like the blue Alcantara as well, so I went on and purchased the DD1 and Formula V2 (Red) seperately. You will loose a little bargain of the missing APM - but there are great third party magnetic shifters which cost about 20 bucks and give you the same feeling (you won't get the extra paddles though)

Overall I'm 100% happy with my choice. The difference between a G29/T300 and a DD is massive and will change your sim-experience completely. I also read and hear good things about Fanatec support (I haven't had a single issue with any of their products so far) and seeing their development and engagement in the simracing environment gives me a good feeling about owning their products.

 

[Exited]

Thanks for responses so far. I knew that couple of guys have the Fanatac DD wheel here, so I was curious if maybe somebody pulled the trigger for the SC2

Watch the Sim Racing Garage reviews of both, that guy (Barry) doesn't miss anything. I personally went for an accuforce v2 based on price and how good the software is. Once you're into DD wheels it's all about the software because any of them can rip your arm off.

Watched his reviews, he seems to be really positive about the SC2. Problem for me is that his fanatec DD review is a little bit screwed because he has a faulty QR and mad oscillations during braking (bad wheel settings?).

I only have the DD1 so can't say anything about the Simucube, but can comment on a few points:

- cannot confirm any flex in the QR - I've read about it too but I wonder how there should be flex if you tighten the golden screw strong enough. one thing I experienced though, that if I had the extra securing-screw in, I recognized something that felt like a little play - but that was just the casing of the QR bouncing against that screw. I removed it and had no issues since then.
- I personally don't like the blue Alcantara as well, so I went on and purchased the DD1 and Formula V2 (Red) seperately. You will loose a little bargain of the missing APM - but there are great third party magnetic shifters which cost about 20 bucks and give you the same feeling (you won't get the extra paddles though)

Overall I'm 100% happy with my choice. The difference between a G29/T300 and a DD is massive and will change your sim-experience completely. I also read and hear good things about Fanatec support (I haven't had a single issue with any of their products so far) and seeing their development and engagement in the simracing environment gives me a good feeling about owning their products.

Yeah I had a look on the DD1 + the 'normal' Formula V2 aswell, it just looks so much better in black/red. If I go for the Fanatec I take probably the same route as you thanks for the advice with the magnetic shifters, much appreciated!

Good to know about the normally non existent play in the QR. I read a lot and it seems like Barry from SRG is almost the only one with such amount of play in it...

If there would be a mounting solution for the SC2 and a cheaper wireless wheel (Martin Ascher wheel is 670€, jesus...) I would probably go for the SC2, because a lot of reviewers are really with it.
But the price difference is quite huge (500€) for that maybe slightly better responsiveness and FFB... Hmmm

 

[Puffpirat]

Fanatec:
+ Fanatec eco system - yes, plus it's plug and play
+ little bit cheaper than the Simucube 2 Pro - even more so considering the rims
+ there is a decent mount available for my Sim Lab Gt1 Evo - multiple
- rumoured not so good FFB than SC2 Pro - doubt it, especially now with the new driver
- bigger than the SC2 Pro - it's still not really huge but yeah
- sometimes play/flex in the QR - as Iceman, can't confirm this issue
- blue alcantara wheel... - you're in VR right

Simucube 2:
+ Smaller than DD1
+ rumoured better and more responsive FFB than DD1
+ free wheel choice - this is Fluch and Segen zugleich With the really good aftermarket rims you can end up north of a 1000€ and with the Podium Hub you can connect any rim to the DD1 too
- more expensive than DD1
- no mount for the GT1 Evo available
- two power supplies
- rumoured buggy software

I've added some comments to your pros and cons. @MelBonkers has the SC2, maybe he can add another side to the discussion. Overall I'm really happy with the DD1 and if you want the complete package the DD F1 is a good deal. It's obviously not as cool as my limited edition gold F1 wheel but yeah

If there would be a mounting solution for the SC2 and a cheaper wireless wheel (Martin Ascher wheel is 670€, jesus...) I would probably go for the SC2, because a lot of reviewers are really with it.

There is a mount for SC2. I think you would need to combine it with the wheel deck solution:

Direct Drive wheel mounting bracket - Fixed version

sim-lab.eu

 

[UnstopaPaul]

I own the DD1 as well My own notes:

• Yes, technically there is flex, but only when you deliberately move the wheel side to side to observe it. I have never once thought "dammit my wheel just slipped"
• If you have the sim-labs P1 rig with the shelf-like mounting for a Logitech/Thrustmaster etc, you can mount the DD1 on that using the 3 screw option. The funky side mounting is cool, but you might not need additional parts.
• If you get the DD1/Formula v2 package, be advised that you only get the parts from the APM kit that were needed for the F1 configuration. It does not come with the additional paddle options (a minor annoyance)
• Fanatec just released new drivers for the DD1, so the responsiveness/resolution info on the internet may well be out of date now. I've not tried the patch yet though.
• Once I actually a) updated the firmware properly and b) switched the wheel in to compatibility mode it worked great with PC2. Overall it's very close to plug and play, which was a major factor for me.
• I have no regrets

 

[Exited]

I've added some comments to your pros and cons. @MelBonkers has the SC2, maybe he can add another side to the discussion. Overall I'm really happy with the DD1 and if you want the complete package the DD F1 is a good deal. It's obviously not as cool as my limited edition gold F1 wheel but yeah


There is a mount for SC2. I think you would need to combine it with the wheel deck solution:

Direct Drive wheel mounting bracket - Fixed version

sim-lab.eu

I would take the blue wheel with a kiss compared to my current T300 RS, I don't need to be that special like you

But thanks for the input. Out of curiosity, what changed with the new driver? Better responsiveness, less cogging, etc.?

I saw that mounting option and thought about a DIY solution with two additional 80/20 alu profiles. Problem is that I would not have any possibility to change the angle of the wheel, it would be just straight or I would need to bend the Sim Lab mount. Additionally even more costs
Wheel deck is no option for me as it has already some flex with my shorter T300 (need to double check if its really the deck or just the t300 itself )

How do you have your DD1 mounted to the GT1 evo?

I own the DD1 as well My own notes:

• Yes, technically there is flex, but only when you deliberately move the wheel side to side to observe it. I have never once thought "dammit my wheel just slipped"
• If you have the sim-labs P1 rig with the shelf-like mounting for a Logitech/Thrustmaster etc, you can mount the DD1 on that using the 3 screw option. The funky side mounting is cool, but you might not need additional parts.
• If you get the DD1/Formula v2 package, be advised that you only get the parts from the APM kit that were needed for the F1 configuration. It does not come with the additional paddle options (a minor annoyance)
• Fanatec just released new drivers for the DD1, so the responsiveness/resolution info on the internet may well be out of date now. I've not tried the patch yet though.
• Once I actually a) updated the firmware properly and b) switched the wheel in to compatibility mode it worked great with PC2. Overall it's very close to plug and play, which was a major factor for me.
• I have no regrets

What do you mean with the additional paddle option? Are there normally switchable paddles in the APM? I have to admit that I didn't do in depth research about the APM
Thank you for your response!

 

[Puffpirat]

But thanks for the input. Out of curiosity, what changed with the new driver? Better responsiveness, less cogging, etc.?

Yeah more fidelity, more filters and options, better responsiveness. There is no cogging, well at least not when powered on. Powered off all DDs cog.

Fanatec Beta Driver V352/356 [DD Performance Update] for Podium Bases ONLY (all steering wheels)

Today, we’re introducing the first Performance Update for the Podium Series, which includes some major driver optimizations and firmware updates for the DD1 (including PS4 version) and DD2 wheel bases and motors.

forum.fanatec.com

Wheel deck is no option for me as it has already some flex with my shorter T300 (need to double check if its really the deck or just the t300 itself )

How do you have your DD1 mounted to the GT1 evo?

I have mine mounted on the wheel deck. I don't have any flex, guess it's T300, just another reason to get rid of it

What do you mean with the additional paddle option? Are there normally switchable paddles in the APM? I have to admit that I didn't do in depth research about the APM
Thank you for your response!

When you order them seperately you get big and small shifter paddles, for F1 and GT style. Check for example the 911 R rim, there the bigger ones are used.

 

[Havocc]

I have mine mounted on gt omega apex and feels OK, no flexif you don't go for arm-breaking torque levels, just some vibrations when going over big curbs, but you can use signal interpolation with new firmware to have a more normalized signal and avoid noise and metallic vibrations

However rule n.1 for dd: if you spin at high speed put your hands off the wheel

 

[exiges]

I have mine mounted on gt omega apex and feels OK, no flexif you don't go for arm-breaking torque levels

Have you modified your cockpit in any way ? Even with a CSL Elite wheelbase I’m getting too much flexing

 

[MelBonkers]

I will react more extensively later to this post. Basically you're comparing the wrong DD bases. The correct comparison in my opinion should be:

• Simucube Sport vs Fanatec DD1
• Simucube Pro vs Fanatec DD2

The Simucube Ultimate should really be compared to highest end DD wheels like Leo Bodnar's in my opinion.

I went for the Simucube Pro based on online reviews and personal experience testing them at the SimRacingExpo.

 

[Havocc]

Have you modified your cockpit in any way ? Even with a CSL Elite wheelbase I’m getting too much flexing

 

[JetPistol]

Simucube 2:
+ Smaller than DD1

This is a fair point. With a smaller base it's easier to position your screen at an ergonomically correct position without the need to use angled mounts or extensions. Only a valid argument if you use (a) screen(s), though.

+ rumoured better and more responsive FFB than DD1

Can't judge relative to other DD bases but SC2 Pro is a huge step up coming from a T300RS.

+ free wheel choice

Biggest plus for me since Fanatec doesn't offer a formula/LM-style rim to my liking. You'd have hundreds of quality custom rims to choose from if you'd purchase a SC wheelbase.

- more expensive than DD1

I think the price is more or less the same since spec-wise the direct competitior would be the SimuCube 2 Sport which costs even less than DD1 (alone). You'd need to put in the wheel into the equation of course.

- no mount for the GT1 Evo available

There is a Simlab mount available which was posted above already. But since I own this one, I can safely say that it's really a subpar piece of aluminium with poor black finish and abysmal welding. That's why I've returned it for replacement. However, it fits perfectly and doesn't flex. HRS does provide more advanced and adaptable mounting solutions if you wan't to spend some more coins (CLICK). Apart from the mounting, theres absolutely no flex in the wheelbase or QR parts of the SC2.

- two power supplies

No problems with these here (22 x 9 x 5 cm per unit). The cables with the power plug end might be a bit short depeding on your situation. But you could get these for some Euros if necessary since these are not fixed which is good.

- rumoured buggy software

I don't concider it buggy. I had one problem where it did reset the dampening level once and it rattled in a way where I initially thought the base was broken. No problems before and since then.

If you decide for a SC2 base I can highly recommend VRS (https://virtualracingstore.com/) where you could purchase most of the stuff SC parts one-stop. Their service and support is great.

 

[exiges]

That looks solid enough (if a little hectic!). I realized you have an GTOmega Apex, not GTOmega Art, my bad

 

[Jeff[NL]]

Still very happy with the DD1. Now with the new drivers its coming more alive and you can adjust it even more to preference. I cannot find any negative points at the moment. Seen all the 'drama' boys talking about flex what is obvious how they test it with hubs etc. I use a 8020 rig and i can use max torque and the only flex are in my wrists and arms
Its all about the drivers at the moment and i think they now found a good spot at Fanatec.

Just sell a kidney and go buy it mate

 

[JetPistol]

Just get either of these. If you decide for a SC2 base, better screen the market since there are endless opportunities for quality wheels out there. Here's a link to get an impression: https://community.granitedevices.com/t/steering-wheels-of-the-sc2-community/3155

 

[Exited]

I was soooo damn close to go for the DD1 F1 package but then @JetPistol came in and posted that link with HRS mounting solution for the Simucube 2 that changes everything for me, because now a DIY solution with 2 additional 80 20 aluminum profiles would be possible if the Sim Lab Wheel Deck flexes too much with a DD wheel.

I don't know why, but I really want that SC2 Pro. All the reviews that I watched so far about the Podium DD and the SC2 were literally the same. Everybody who was reviewing the Podium was really happy about it and said it is an awesome piece of hardware, so no problems with that. But a lot of people who were reviewing the SC2, they were really hyped about it, said how awesome it is with the right settings (could be a problem yes) and I just could 'feel' more enthusiasm when they talked about the SC2...
Little bit 'last nail in the coffin' for the DD1 was that small 'bug' in ACCs FFB which came with the last patch. All SC2 did have a small speed dependent vibration in their wheel when 1.2 came out. It turned out that this was introduced by a rough tarmac, tire flex, chassis flex and very stiff front suspension combo which transferred that vibration from the tarmac directly to the wheel. Actually no real bug, but some simulation issue as there is no rubber parts in the suspension simulated. Point was that this was only felt on SC2 and not on Podium wheels, which tells me that the Podium wheel is too much dampened and you loose some details because of that

In the end I will most probably go for a SC2 Pro with the Ascher F28 SC wheel, because I don't want a USB cable hanging around. I will mount that on the original wheel deck of my GT1 Evo and see how it fits. When there is to much flex I'm gonna do a DIY mount with the HRS mounting option I'm already crying about the price tag but I really think it's for the good

Thank you all a lot for all these valuable, very informative and some times even funny responses! What a great community you are!
Cheers,
Exited

 

[MelBonkers]

@Exited ,

Sorry that I share my experience this late. I personally have the SC2Pro with a Simulaje F1S wheel with augurysimulations.com. I love the kit very very very much.

As I said I bought the wheel after I personally tried the SC2 Sport and the Fanatec DD1 (1 and 2) on several occasions at the SimRacingExpo from 2019 and 2018.

Basically if you go for the SC2 or Fanatec DD wheel, they are both awesome wheels. My choice for SC2 was based on the following:

1. Reviews on the following YT channels: SimRacingGarage (Barry Rowland), Race Beyond Matter and Beano iRacing.
2. I personally tried both wheel bases during two SimRacingExpo's and was impressed with the SC2 (Sport) and the details you felt through the wheel. I was not impressed with the Fanatec's setup (DD1 and DD2). It was basically setup too heavy and you couldn't feel any details. It was all jerking around while driving with it. Something Fanatec should've done better in my opinion to let people feel what the DD1 and DD2 are capable of.
3. Fanatec wasn't my first choice, as since I started simracing I heard too many of my friends needing to return broken items to Fanatec for repairs or replacement. I didn't have a lot of confidence in the company tbh. If I would've gone for a Fanatec DD wheel, I'd go for the DD2 anyway as that has 5 years of warranty and buying that warranty on a DD1 wheel would bring the price towards the 1500 euro of a DD2 wheel anyway.

In the end I ordered the SC2 Pro with the Simulaje F1S wheel. The software is very strong in all it's options (maybe sometimes a bit too much), but stil really good. You can use profiles and load and change them on the fly. With the SC2 you can have wireless wheels as well, as you mentioned. I have bought a second hand Fanatec GT rim and want to buy an Ascher wireless button box in the future so that I have an F1 wheel and a GT wheel.

I have bought the SimLab Mounting bracket (https://sim-lab.eu/product/mige-80-90-130st-mounting-bracket/) and it works really well on my Obutto R3volution rig.

At the moment I've run the wheel at max 17Nm (today in ACC) and after 7 or 8 laps, I began to get a little bit exhausted .

If you go for the SC2 base, you can also opt for the Sport. I think the difference between the Sport and Pro is only noticeable on max. power (Nm). If you're not going to plan to run the max of the SC2 Pro, you can save some cash and go for the Sport.

I hope I added some useful information here.........and if not, I hope my post was enjoyable to read . If you want to know stuff about the SC2 (Pro) let me know and I can see how I can help/answer your questions.

Regards,

Mo

 

[Jeff[NL]]

At the moment I've run the wheel at max 17Nm (today in ACC) and after 7 or 8 laps, I began to get a little bit exhausted

Depending on the cars that you drive i really do not concider this realistic to drive around with 17nm torque. Most people i know with a DD wheel run it around 7- 10Nm tops. IF its more you just cannot drive properly ,like going karting for 1 hour straight without exercise or preparation your arms will be dead after that. Unless you wanna workout then i understand

 

[MelBonkers]

Depending on the cars that you drive i really do not concider this realistic to drive around with 17nm torque. Most people i know with a DD wheel run it around 7- 10Nm tops. IF its more you just cannot drive properly ,like going karting for 1 hour straight without exercise or preparation your arms will be dead after that. Unless you wanna workout then i understand

100% Agree with you. That is my biggest "complaint" about people talking about high Nm and running max torque on DD wheels. It's not realistic as most cars now have power steering. It just adds a bit to the G-Force experience if you want that. But moderate Nm and being able to feel details through the steering wheel has my preference. This week I drove Zolder in the AMG GT3 and for the first time I noticed how the car was bouncing on it's suspension in the section after T2. That felt SO good and so rewarding driving the car.

Btw about karting: I've done endurance kart sessions where I could drive for 1h30/2h without any issue whatsoever with my arms. And I've driving short heats of 12 minutes where my arms were dead after 1 heat :-D