PC2 Resolved Endurance Championship - Rd 5: Le Mans - Track limits (1 Viewer)

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GosuNoob

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Date: 6/17/18
Event: 2.4H LeMans Crossover
Members Involved: @CatchAGlimpse
Description: Extensive and repeated track limit violations. Key ones were at Tetre Rouge, Mulsane Corner, Arnage, and exit of Porsche Curves. Evidence consists of merely 2 consecutive laps worth of footage, covering 9 separate track cuts. A full replay review would provide more, but for the sake of time for all involved I believe these 2 laps worth of cuts are sufficient to prove the point.
Evidence:
1
Notes: Run extremely wide at Tetre Rouge. I admit I myself ran about 1-2cm wide, but you clearly see my reaction with reduced throttle at 50-75%% for about a half second.

2/3
Notes: I add this because I was called out for a limit extension here myself. The only limit extension I see is on both the entry, and exit of Mulsane corner by Catch.

4
Notes: Run wide at exit of Porsche Curves

5
Notes: Run wide at Tetre Rouge

6
Notes: Run wide at exit of Chicane 1

7
Notes: Run wide at exit of Mulsane Corner

8
Notes: Run wide at Arnage

9
Notes: Run wide at Dunlop

Again I am not here to be a police man, however this was over only a 2 lap segment of the race. I believe that these events are challenging enough without having having to monitor others, which is honestly why I was not calling out these instances for most of the race.

My only question is do you drive with in-car view and not know that you are cutting this frequently?
 

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CatchAGlimpse

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Given that you were behind me for the first few laps, I only heard you mention track limits once. This is spoken about clearly at the start of the event in the drivers briefing. If anybody feels that another driver is cutting, mention it over TS and let them fix the issue, why say only one thing on one particular corner then report to the stewards?

Anyway... I've always tried to been as fair as possible, if I felt like I've gained an advantage I will lift or even concede the position (exactly what happened between myself and Battenburg in the Ginetta race).

In response to the main report - taking in consideration that most of your evidence is only useful for the "mirror" and not especially clear for issues such as track limits.

Cut 1/6: Nearly lost it on entry, ran wide, I lifted slightly but as I had ran so wide I felt lifting more would be a more severe penalty especially after launching in the air over those mini sausage kerbs in the exit.

Cut 2/3: I purposefully didn't take this line, until nearly every other LMP2 in front of me was taking this line including yourself so I started taking it to minimise the time I was losing against all others ("can't beat them, join them" springs to mind, it isn't the correct attitude but you catch my drift).

Cut 4: Nearly lost it coming back over the kerb onto the track, the mini tank slapper made me not lift further due to the time already lost.

Cut 7: Ran wide and didn't lift, again mainly because so other cars were taking this line.

Cut 8: Where is the cut?

Cut 9: Hard to tell because of angle of camera, given the fact it can only be seen in your mirror when going down hill.

I'm not sure what else @GosuNoob would like me to do in these situation, slow down to 60mph then continue for every mistake I make that results in running wide?

Edit: Yes, I drive in the cockpit cam.

Edit 2: Given that after this particular battle you drove away by around 10/15 seconds shows that I was pushing to keep up with you that was causing these mistakes in the first few laps (I think I went from 11th to 5th in five corners, so I was on the defensive after this until falling back to my natural position for my pace that race.
 
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CatchAGlimpse

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After getting 10mins free to watch some more of Gosu's twitch stream, I found 3 instances of Gosu doing exactly what he is reporting me for.. cutting the track and not lifting. I haven't got time to go through the stream further but this was only after 5/10mins of watching or 3/4 laps

Cut 1 - right hander.. terte rouge? all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains/improves.
Cut 2 - all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains/improves.
Cut 3 - last corner - all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains.

If you watch on in the 2nd clip you can hear a conversation between Andrex and another driver, the other driver raised the issue of track limits with him and Andrex said he would try and improve that corner. @GosuNoob - I know you did raise it on one occasion about the exit of Virage but you had literally cut the entry on Virage and didn't slow just before you said it, so I felt this was nullified. If you had further issues you should have raised them with me earlier.

The point of this post is to show that I'm not alone in these errors.
 

t0daY

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After getting 10mins free to watch some more of Gosu's twitch stream, I found 3 instances of Gosu doing exactly what he is reporting me for.. cutting the track and not lifting. I haven't got time to go through the stream further but this was only after 5/10mins of watching or 3/4 laps

Cut 1 - right hander.. terte rouge? all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains/improves.
Cut 2 - all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains/improves.
Cut 3 - last corner - all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains.

If you watch on in the 2nd clip you can hear a conversation between Andrex and another driver, the other driver raised the issue of track limits with him and Andrex said he would try and improve that corner. @GosuNoob - I know you did raise it on one occasion about the exit of Virage but you had literally cut the entry on Virage and didn't slow just before you said it, so I felt this was nullified. If you had further issues you should have raised them with me earlier.
The case is against you @CatchAGlimpse and not vice versa. I do not know why recently people think this is an open free discussion in the steward's room. We want both opinions, the rest is taken care of by the stewards.

Additionally to that, his cutting nullifies your cutting? Really cannot believe this attitude.
 

CatchAGlimpse

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I'm not making a case against Gosu, I'm just showing evidence that I wasn't the only car doing this. I didn't have time to fully "defend" myself between seeing this report 5 minutes before going to bed and having a full time job to attend to.
 

GosuNoob

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I hope it is acceptable with the Stewards that I make a factual response to CatchAGlimpse.

Cut 2/3: I purposefully didn't take this line, until nearly every other LMP2 in front of me was taking this line including yourself so I started taking it to minimise the time I was losing against all others ("can't beat them, join them" springs to mind, it isn't the correct attitude but you catch my drift).
There was only one instance in the entire race that I extended the entry into this corner, and it was when I experienced a full lock up and was avoiding a vehicle. In the "Cut 2/3" video, I am well within the white lines on both entry and exit.
Below is a clip an hour into the race, with nobody within 15+ seconds of me, taking my natural line through that corner. If I was looking to gain an advantage, this would have been an opportunity. I hope this clip confirms my reputation in this regard.
Cut 8: Where is the cut?
When I look back you are well outside of the white lines and almost have all 4 wheels on the curbing.
Edit 2: Given that after this particular battle you drove away by around 10/15 seconds shows that I was pushing to keep up with you that was causing these mistakes in the first few laps (I think I went from 11th to 5th in five corners, so I was on the defensive after this until falling back to my natural position for my pace that race.
The clips that I posted are all with less than 25 minutes remaining in the race. This was not when we were still getting settled in to the race, it was after we had been racing for nearly two hours.

After getting 10mins free to watch some more of Gosu's twitch stream, I found 3 instances of Gosu doing exactly what he is reporting me for.. cutting the track and not lifting. I haven't got time to go through the stream further but this was only after 5/10mins of watching or 3/4 laps

Cut 1 - right hander.. terte rouge? all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains/improves.
Cut 2 - all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains/improves.
Cut 3 - last corner - all 4 wheels out of white lines, no lift and relative time to best lap remains.
The track limits are the white lines. As long as there are two tires on the white line you are within track limits is my understanding of the situation. Since I drive with roof cam, you have a much wider field of view, and can actually see the cut outs in the wheel wells where my tires are physically located.
With that in mind, I don't believe any of these clips show an actual track cut.
There is capability to slow down the video to 0.25x if closer inspection is needed.

Here is an example of one of the few times I did extend track limits. Please note the response when I see it.

Here is an example of me self-correcting what I believe to be a track cut. There was nobody within 10s of me, and I could have chopped the whole corner if I wanted to be an exploitative driver.

I hope this puts to bed any questions that may have arisen about my integrity when it comes to racing within the rules. As some know I once refused to drive the Toyota TS040 in a crossover because I knew it was not a balanced car within the class, even after a BoP adjustment.
I am here to race as fast as I can within the parameters that have been set, and would rather finish 32nd and know I drove a clean race, than finish on the podium through time gained when nobody was looking.

If the Stewards feel that portions of this reply, or the entire reply is out of line, I will gladly remove it. However I felt like my integrity was called into question here and that it warranted a reply.
 
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t0daY

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I'm not making a case against Gosu, I'm just showing evidence that I wasn't the only car doing this. I didn't have time to fully "defend" myself between seeing this report 5 minutes before going to bed and having a full time job to attend to.
But why are you bringing up his "cuts" up anyway? It indicates us that you are trying to justify your cutting with his which is not right. You want to mention his cuts? Open a steward enquiry.

Furthermore you can take 1 to 2 days to reply to a stewards case. There is no deadline saying you have to reply as fast as you can.

And trust me @CatchAGlimpse, all the staff members got a full time job and I do believe replying to a stewards case is less work than running a community in the scale of how we do it.
 

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CatchAGlimpse

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Given what has already been posted by all parties involved - I have nothing else to add.

I’ll let the investigation take its natural course.
 

GosuNoob

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We are in agreement here.
I believe everything that needed to be said has been.

If there is an investigation related to my own driving, I believe I have been as open as possible in the matter.

My entire stream is available on my channel for transparency.

I DO want to apologise for some of the statements that were made there in the heat of the moment. My frustration level at certain things throughout the race had been building up with respect to other drivers, and it came to a climax when we got involved.
 
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The Stewards have concluded their enquiries into this case and are to take No Further Action against @CatchAGlimpse. No points will be added to his Racing License.

The Stewards did not find enough evidence, from the provided footage, to award a penalty on the basis of this being a 2.5 hour race. It is unfortunate that replays were not available, as a result of problems experienced at the end of the race, as these would have provided additional evidence either for or against the reported offence. We would, however, remind drivers of their responsibility to 'give up' any time gained should they stray over the track limits at any time in a race.


Thread closed for further comments @GosuNoob @CatchAGlimpse
 
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