PC2 Resolved Ginetta Challenge Race 4 - Turn 1 Heroes (1 Viewer)

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Mearcat

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I have been tagged but not sure if I am required to respond or not?

But in case I am:

I saw a couple of times ppl going 2 wide through Au-Rouge... Yes, these cars are probably easier to drive than the faster cars, and it is indeed more POSSIBLE to go through side-by-side. but just because it's POSSIBLE, doesn't mean you SHOULD!
A lot of it comes down to experience, and there is different levels within RSR (100% natural), but if people are not able to drive close to others, then the racing quickly becomes frustrating.
From my part in the races I hope I was as clean as I could of been as I only had one coming together of note (explained below) but Race 2 definitely confirmed what @AndrexUK is saying about the experience gap.

In race 2 I had the priviledge to be at the front for the first 1/4 of the race but with a few mistakes I ended up having that 5 way battle for 2nd (Black with red stripes).
Whilst I was in this pack, which I am not accustomed to being in, **I felt very pressured into giving space due to how close the cars were and the muscling through from the more experienced drivers** (see below) hence why I dropped from being at the front of that pack to the back going into Les Combes.

**This was racing at its best and is what I joined for, Don't take this as me saying I felt "required" to give up the position, this was not the case as I know my limits and skill level very well and where they measure up, I did try and hold my own amongst that group battle. But it does highlight what is being said about the experience level gap within RSR**.

That close racing episode was only possible as all the drivers could trust each other to perform adequately. I could trust @t0daY, @steveg200 @Alex Salmon and @Born2BSlow as I know they are used to racing in such close quarters, and more importantly they are used to racing with each other (normally at the front) so they know how to react. I feel honoured to of been able to muscle it out with them for once.

The race 2/start 2 was very clean most likely for the fact it was the 4th start so everyone knew what to expect and therefore were very cautious with no silly moves.

With my experience as a regular at the back of the grid, this nails the problem perfectly as this is exactly what happens:
But, it really boils my blood when you are being safe and braking early to give a safe space in front, and you get someone just firing up the inside and taking away that safe gap you have left in case something happens in front.
I know it's natural to try to take advantage of other ppl going slow, but the risk is too high.
I leave a gap, someone thinks it's a mistake, tries to capitalize on it without seeing there is another car in front of me that I have to give room for. Now there are 3 cars going into a corner instead of 2 = crash. Car in front turns in, forces me to turn in as expected, but now no room for me so where do I go?

Either turn in and get spun out or go wide and spin him out. either way I loose due to that 3rd car.

Glad I was included in the close racing clip, that was an epic 5 way battle ... sadly that didn’t last as I ended up off track due to contact later in the lap. It’s a shame, I do like default setup slower car racing, but it’s not going well for me at the moment.
@Born2BSlow this one was me as explained below which was the only major incident I had that involved another car. I did my damnedest to avoid it and followed the punt off rules after taking you off. Sorry.

Approaching Les Fagnes I brake a little too hard and combined with @Born2BSlow 's draft as he closed towards the apex it became a lock on the fronts :sour:, sliding into his rear right inevitably spinning him off (sorry :sorry:). Hopefully it didn't damage anything on his but mine had 2 front damage which curbed my top speed so lost the chance to keep up with the top 6 :( but had a great battle with @Mark for P9.
 

AndrexUK

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@Taorminator
To be honest, it wasn't really fully directed at you, but more a build up of all the events leading up to that point. 100% no hard feelings!
The fact Manu had made it very clear for ppl to take it easy, especially on Lap 1 / T1, I had hope that we were all going to have a great race. and it was unfortunately cut short :(

The double pass after Au rouge I felt was early enough before the braking point that I was past before the braking point (Had the double draft boost).
I was carrying a decent amount more speed than you both, and @Battenberg ? I think was about as far over to the left as he could be, you were initially on the right hand side, and the gap in the middle was bigger, then you moved over a little, and I was about to back out, but then you moved right again and the gap was available again. I think (again, from my perspective), you moved a little more left again, and I only had the smallest of spaces as I was beside you both.
At the time, if I made contact with the guy on the left, he would be on the grass, and that would not end well at all for him, so I held the small gap between me and Battenberg. I was edging ahead at the point of contact, but I'm fairly sure I was going as straight as possible, but it was certainly safer for any slight contact to be with you, since you still had a little bit of room on your right, rather than onto the grass.
I wouldn't say it was aggressive (from my point of view), certainly very opportunistic, but I felt there was enough room.
Again, I was going to back out, but then you seamed to open the door again, so I continued through.
As you say, it wasn't without risk (as no pass is), but I felt that we all had room to go through, and I knew I would be past before the braking point, as 3 wide into the turn would not rank very high in my 'good idea's' book!

When you went passed me after Blanch, it was almost the reverse...(In as far as 2 cars overtaking me (1 either side), rather than me passing 2 cars)
You went on the outside on my right, and Battenberg was on my left (which was why I held the middle line, I certainly was not planning to squeeze anyone!) So again, I was sandwiched, but the braking point was much closer, so I backed out even more, and let you both go.
The lap before, 2 cars did almost the same as you + Bat, so I was more or less ready for it, and tried to go for a good tight exit while you both slowed yourselves down, but you didn't quite manage to slow down enough, and gave Bat no where to go.

I had a fairly safe gap to you both, and decided to go for the cut back, but I then got hit from the right (I wasn't even aware of which one of you it was to be fair, as it was my rear right quarter. This spun me round, and put me in the wall (while the other one of you, ended up on their side...

I could have carried on, as I didn't really take a good look at the damage done, but with the number of incidents snowballing, I really didn't want to be in the middle of it all, as there was no real signs of things improving :(

But absolutely no hard feelings at all! fear not!
 
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Taorminator

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@t0daY & @Born2BSlow at first I was very surprised to see this incident as I didn't remember any of it! Indeed I remember I experienced a desync at the restart of race 1 and from my POV there was no contact with anyone (you can see it in my replay, I can prove it when I'll upload it). During the desync I purposedly took the wide line as there was at that time nobody to my left hand side to minimize the chance of hitting anybody and got out of it just fine. I am really sorry this happened I thought the incident was caused behind. Sorry for having ruined your race @Born2BSlow but there was nothing I could do, it was a technical problem :(
This is my footage to prove I had desync :

 

steveg200

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Thanks @Taorminator .I think when you have trust in the drivers around you, you can race very close without incidents.
 

Taorminator

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@Taorminator
To be honest, it wasn't really fully directed at you, but more a build up of all the events leading up to that point. 100% no hard feelings!
The fact Manu had made it very clear for ppl to take it easy, especially on Lap 1 / T1, I had hope that we were all going to have a great race. and it was unfortunately cut short :(

The double pass after Au rouge I felt was early enough before the braking point that I was past before the braking point (Had the double draft boost).
I was carrying a decent amount more speed than you both, and @Battenberg ? I think was about as far over to the left as he could be, you were initially on the right hand side, and the gap in the middle was bigger, then you moved over a little, and I was about to back out, but then you moved right again and the gap was available again. I think (again, from my perspective), you moved a little more left again, and I only had the smallest of spaces as I was beside you both.
At the time, if I made contact with the guy on the left, he would be on the grass, and that would not end well at all for him, so I held the small gap between me and Battenberg. I was edging ahead at the point of contact, but I'm fairly sure I was going as straight as possible, but it was certainly safer for any slight contact to be with you, since you still had a little bit of room on your right, rather than onto the grass.
I wouldn't say it was aggressive (from my point of view), certainly very opportunistic, but I felt there was enough room.
Again, I was going to back out, but then you seamed to open the door again, so I continued through.
As you say, it wasn't without risk (as no pass is), but I felt that we all had room to go through, and I knew I would be past before the braking point, as 3 wide into the turn would not rank very high in my 'good idea's' book!

When you went passed me after Blanch, it was almost the reverse...(In as far as 2 cars overtaking me (1 either side), rather than me passing 2 cars)
You went on the outside on my right, and Battenberg was on my left (which was why I held the middle line, I certainly was not planning to squeeze anyone!) So again, I was sandwiched, but the braking point was much closer, so I backed out even more, and let you both go.
The lap before, 2 cars did almost the same as you + Bat, so I was more or less ready for it, and tried to go for a good tight exit while you both slowed yourselves down, but you didn't quite manage to slow down enough, and gave Bat no where to go.

I had a fairly safe gap to you both, and decided to go for the cut back, but I then got hit from the right (I wasn't even aware of which one of you it was to be fair, as it was my rear right quarter. This spun me round, and put me in the wall (while the other one of you, ended up on their side...

I could have carried on, as I didn't really take a good look at the damage done, but with the number of incidents snowballing, I really didn't want to be in the middle of it all, as there was no real signs of things improving :(

But absolutely no hard feelings at all! fear not!
Thank you for your POV :) It's good to know as the race can feel very different when you lived it and review it later

Here is my footage of the lap to put things into their context :


I agree with you, just Blanchimont feels different as Battenberg doesn't seem near you (but again might have seemed different to you at the time of the race). Strange thing is that my car doesn't seem affected at all by the first contact with Battenberg (even more obvious in cockpit view), I honnestly didn't remember that contact after the race as I didn't feel it maybe that's why I didn't realize he was there? Should have left more space just in case anyway, that's no excuse.

No hard feelings either mate! Let's put this behind us :)
 

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Guess everyone who wanted so add something did that. Moving this case now to the stewards.
 

Cluck

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Well now, it seems somebody has secretly recorded and leaked the RSR admin meeting. Warning, some viewers may find some of the scenes disturbing.

 

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@Eugene Flerko
The Stewards are issuing a Drive Through Penalty and 2 Penalty Points to Eugene Flerko for causing avoidable contact as a result of late braking/dive-bombing into Turn 1. Eugene has already accepted responsibility but the Stewards cannot ignore that contact was made with steveg200, spinning him out of position and resulting in further collisions. Extra care must always be taken for the first corner of a race.

@Taorminator
The Stewards are to take No Further Action against Taorminator as it is very clear, from the footage provided, that Tao suffered a network desync. The Stewards would only recommend that @Taorminator ensures that he makes every effort to reduce potential network problems before entering lobbies in future. This includes, for example, ensuring that a wired connection is used where possible, rather than wireless, and that as many background applications as possible are closed.

@Jaco P.
The Stewards are issuing Jaco P. with a Drive Through Penalty (to be served at the next ranked race attended), a Disqualification from the event's results and 3 License Points added to his Racing License for a dangerous rejoin. As per Article 2.1.1 of our Driving Standards:

2.1.1 - Should a car leave the track for any reason the driver may rejoin but only when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.

The rejoin in question was both reckless and unpredictable for other drivers around Jaco P. , with the inevitable contact resulting in multiple collisions, as one would expect from a tight pack at the exit of the first turn of a race. The Stewards also queried why Jaco P. chose to rejoin so early, when continuing off-track to the left would have made for a far safer, more predictable rejoin, giving other drivers time to take avoiding action. Drivers must act with extreme caution when attempting to rejoin the circuit at the start of the race and if in any doubt, wait off-track until the entire field has passed. It is the severity of the resulting accident that has dictated the harsh penalty applied in this case.

@Jonno
The Stewards are issuing Jonno with a Drive Through Penalty (to be served at the next ranked race attended), a Disqualification from the event's results and 3 License Points added to his Racing License for a dangerous rejoin. As per Article 2.1.1 of our Driving Standards:

2.1.1 - Should a car leave the track for any reason the driver may rejoin but only when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.

In an almost identical scenario to that of the case against Jaco. P, Jonno's rejoin was both reckless and unpredictable. Instead of maintaining a straight line, off the circuit, Jonno chose to rejoin and drift to the right, putting him into direct contact with another car. As with Jaco P., had Jonno continued off-track to the left, his rejoin would have been far safer and more predictable. Given that this was at the exit of the first turn of the race, the pack would naturally have still been tight, making any rejoin dangerous and as such drivers are expected to act with extreme caution in such circumstances. It is the severity of the resulting accident that has dictated the harsh penalty applied in this case.


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