Project CARS 2 Race school suggestion (1 Viewer)

Mearcat

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With the conclusion of season 4, congrats to the winners and also everyone that took part was frustrating but greatly enjoyable, I have observed that there is a big gap between abilities.

I know that no matter what there will always be people that are just talentedly fast. However I have been looking at ways to help close the gap between the racers.

I have had a few conversations with other drivers from both poles of the grid (quickest and slowest drivers) and new applicants, mainly @Daza who organises the newbie nights and think that something along the lines of an annual race school where we can get drivers to share their knowledge.

I have been trying out a method towards the end of season 4 (sorry @Ranjanado for being my guinea pig) during Bathurst, where he was working on a setup and testing on the server but whilst he was out on track I monitored his laps and was able to point out where he could go faster.

This did have a sudden impact on his times (mostly from the setup tweaks) reducing his avarage from 2:10's to 2:07s ( he got faster on his own after this). This was the difference from being towards the back of the grid to being close to the front (average split 2 front runners were about 2:04 / 2:05 race pace).

The above method only took 1 evening, and I was actually juggling at one point 3 seperate drivers looking for advice.

I am attempting during my down time to try and come up with a format that will hopefully fit. There are other threads that give a lot of advice, especially unstoperpauls thread:
https://revolutionsimracing.com/threads/the-self-improvement-thread.1113/unread

This race school would hopefully supliment this by giving drivers and hopefully new applicants a place to witness these tips in real time and gain experience in turn improving their skills.

Biggest hurdle for this is figuring out how to apply this effectively as a 'school' which implies lessons, meaning teachers and students. But mostly we would need to figure out a format so that everyone is tought similarly, forming a base/core set of skills inline with the rsr regs.

Eg. - Biggest problem with season 4 that was noticed (in places Im also guilty of this) is the 'Lap 1 turn 1' syndrome.
Things that would form a bases of lesson would be:
car positioning
Overtake opertunity judgement
Cornering side by side do's and don'ts

These could be split into advanced and basic techniques so that newbies are not encouraged to try the risky overtakes the experienced racers can pull off.

This should then improve our starting behaviour so the we can get more clean starts and therefore more racing.

Thoughts on this would be appreciated, but bare in mind I am yet to figure a format. That would work.

Edit for some clarification -
What I should of stated first is that the thread would be for ideas and suggestions as to things that people would like to improve upon.

This would help form a picture as to what would need to take place.

Also, looking at the way such an event would work would be more of a voluntary meet up on TS with a pier-pier practice event where one of the subject material would take place.


Topics list -
  • Rolling Starts and Formation driving - Format set
  • Cornering -
  • Overtaking -
  • Defending -
 
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Mearcat

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As have I.

I can get my car going quick enough and stable enough to maintain a consistent quickish time (for split 2) but no matter how hard I push I cannot catch nor compete with split 1s (2:03s or lower for bathurst race pace. Mine were 2:05s. 2 seconds per lap slower).

I'm missing something or my technique is wrong or I haven't got settings correct somewhere. I know that I am a 'feel' driver, I need to feel what the car is doing for me to push. There are limitations to what you feel on a race sim.

But I am hoping to pass some helpful knowledge on and in future, gain some myself.
 

UnstopaPaul

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I'm not sure how Season 5 selection will end up, but if I'm split 2 I'm more than happy to team up with someone who wants to improve their racing (rather than someone who wants to win the race). You don't actually need an "expert" to coach you for most things, just a desire to improve, and a method to doing it. There is a massive difference between "teacher" and "coach", most people confuse the two. I've been thinking about adding a "how to train" post on the self improvement thread. I may not have a massive amount of experience in sim racing, but I have competed at the commonwealth games, so I feel reasonably comfortable with talking about training as a general topic.
 

Taorminator

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I agree! It could be done after induction as many people are still up for some fun races. Or a dedicated night could be nice as well but I don't know if it fits in the calendar... It could also be helpful to train for racecraft (defending/passing safely, pressure management) to have more opportunities to pass than during induction. Something like 4 laps duels during which one guy chases another and swap roles after 2 laps. Could be great to build confidence and get a better feel of space from interior view :)
 

Nakor

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Why not try it aside of induction on tuesday? In a separate room and figure out a format that works?
As far as i know Nobody here is a trained teacher - but anyone seems to be willing to share his ideas and knowledge.
Best key for training in my opinion is to focus on one aspect.
For example take one special turn and focus on best exit. Some are driving, some are watching and giving hints.
Or focus on controlling a slide. Or just anything! (Driving basics...?)
I really think everyone (who‘s mind is open) can learn from anyone. No mather how fast anyone is.
I asked for a similar thing in the past in the forum but nobody was up for it then. But i‘m here now to give it a try - if i‘m not alone :D
My spoken English is not that good but it should be enough.
What do you think? Any other concrete ideas?
 

UnstopaPaul

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Why not try it aside of induction on tuesday? In a separate room and figure out a format that works?
As far as i know Nobody here is a trained teacher - but anyone seems to be willing to share his ideas and knowledge.
Best key for training in my opinion is to focus on one aspect.
For example take one special turn and focus on best exit. Some are driving, some are watching and giving hints.
Or focus on controlling a slide. Or just anything! (Driving basics...?)
I really think everyone (who‘s mind is open) can learn from anyone. No mather how fast anyone is.
I asked for a similar thing in the past in the forum but nobody was up for it then. But i‘m here now to give it a try - if i‘m not alone :D
My spoken English is not that good but it should be enough.
What do you think? Any other concrete ideas?
To me this is the best version of how the PRO-AM team should work, though of course the PRO needs to be up for that (or maybe somehow the team championship was more important than the individual? Personally i'm rather uncertain about coaching by committee (I'm a qualified coach, just not in racing ;) ), but one person working with you can be ideal. It's really helped me to have Stu available when I was struggling with something.
 

Mearcat

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I will edit the OP but I need to clarify that when I say things need to be worked through there is at the moment nothing set in stone.

What I should of stated first is that the thread is for ideas and suggestions as to things that people would like to improve upon (cornering/setups/overtakes/race starts etc).

This would help form a picture as to what would need to take place.

Also, looking at the way such an event would work would be more of a voluntary meet up on TS with a pier-pier practice event where one of the subject material would take place.

I have an idea that could work bu t I seriously need to sort a legal issue out first over the coming week then I can look at it in depth.

There is a massive difference between "teacher" and "coach", most people confuse the two
True, but this depends on the subject matter. the "L1T1" syndrome I stated above would definately fall under the teacher category as a safe technique would need to be shown and then the drivers practice it. The driver monitoring technique I did with Ranj was more on the coaching side.

Personally, :dummy: please coach me to be faster paul please:dummy:

Seriously though I would love to be coached by a faster driver, many would love to have your input or guidance round a circuit. I know I need some help to get better. But I also know that I could help others as well.

But I am thinking to begin with we work on the safe start subject. I would like nothing more than to have the next season we do, have zero 1st lap incidents, or indeed any (not quite going to happen but hopeful).
 
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UnstopaPaul

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Personally, :dummy: please coach me to be faster paul please:dummy:
Haha! I'm not sure I'm necessarily the right person to be coaching anyone directly in matters of technique (though I am picking up some). I've solved most of my problems with "practice even more", which is possibly not the magic trick everyone is looking for.

But I am thinking to begin with we work on the safe start subject. I would like nothing more than to have the next season we do, have zero 1st lap incidents, or indeed any (not quite going to happen but hopeful).
This and "no spins" would give much of split 2 (myself very much included) a faster overall race. Not all time is gained in the fractions of power down at corners...

For my part I'd be quite happy to help out if I'm the right person do to so, but its more about helping to identify what the racer needs to work on, not what the coach is going to tell them. If you're still interested PM me and we'll see if we can work out a method.
 

Mearcat

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Haha! I'm not sure I'm necessarily the right person
identify what the racer needs to work on, not what the coach is going to tell them
You would be suprised what a quick observation from a fresh set of eyes can do.
I have to do it all the time in my day job as an engineer, we can't have mistakes leaving the office so I may well of taken a scheme for a junction through to completion thinking its perfect, but all my designs, reports and calculations are given to another section to audit. We call it "bleeding on the plans" as everything comes back covered with red notes.

This process works at work and it also works here (enough work, lets play), as I said above I tested it on my guinea pig (sorry Ranj).
All it takes is spotting something as simple as braking late into a corner and squealing the tyres, not turning soon enough to reach the apex (I do this) using a different gear for a corner.

"practice even more"
I am the same as you on this from my combat background, but practicing a bad technique, racing line or setup can be harmful to any form of progression because you've trained yourself that "this is the right way" and trying to change this becomes much harder.

Looking forward here, to begin with I believe some voluntary online sessions setup for a specific time where people could join to work on the decided area of improvement would be a good start point. The first sessions would be to show some simple safe techniques to reduce on track risks, then following sessions practice these techniques on a regular, but voluntary, bases during which people that would like some tips could ask for someone willing to observe and comment for them. For the first subjects - "convoy starts/racing" and "boring but safe overtaking" I think I have a format but have to test it. But finding the time at present is going to be hard as I have some solicitor issues to address before the week is up.

I hope members list some more great ideas so we can gauge what we could include. Bare in mind setup guides are being worked on by other members so these sessions would focus more on track work to begin with.
 
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SBart_uk

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I'd be more than happy to help out with this race school idea. While helping UnstopaPaul we found that using the ingame monitor is just not good enough to see where someone is actually braking, turning etc. And its far better to have the driver streaming for someone to watch and comment on.
 

UnstopaPaul

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I'd be more than happy to help out with this race school idea. While helping UnstopaPaul we found that using the ingame monitor is just not good enough to see where someone is actually braking, turning etc. And its far better to have the driver streaming for someone to watch and comment on.
noooo - everyone is going to realise that the magic came from you!.... ;)
 

Mearcat

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Thanks Master SBart, I hadn't considered streaming as I have no clue how to set that up. I know the ingame monitor thing is sketchy at best so will look into it (streaming that is).

noooo - everyone is going to realise that the magic came from you!.... ;)
MUHHHHHAAAAAAAA........now we shall all have your magic!!!! :D:D:D

Nah seriously, that actually proves conclusively that such a practice can work and work well.
 

UnstopaPaul

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Thanks Master SBart, I hadn't considered streaming as I have no clue how to set that up. I know the ingame monitor thing is sketchy at best so will look into it (streaming that is).

MUHHHHHAAAAAAAA........now we shall all have your magic!!!! :D:D:D

Nah seriously, that actually proves conclusively that such a practice can work and work well.
oh, definitely so, and it was amazing how few (but how crucial) the observations were. However I would also say that having someone knowledgeable to bounce ideas off helped drive me to practice more. Hence if your PRO/AM partner never responds or never talks...ditch them for one who will.
 

Laserbeak43

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Thanks Master SBart, I hadn't considered streaming as I have no clue how to set that up. I know the ingame monitor thing is sketchy at best so will look into it (streaming that is).
Discord seems to be fairly easy to setup for streaming.
 

UnstopaPaul

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Discord seems to be fairly easy to setup for streaming.
I've always used OBS for this, but the stream in this case is really about sharing a reviewable screen, not about wowing your fanbase, so a lot of OBS is overkill (though OBS is very easy to get running)
 

fab. ICEMAN

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I'm also posting in here to stay informed, I like the idea behind this!
 

Laserbeak43

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I've always used OBS for this, but the stream in this case is really about sharing a reviewable screen, not about wowing your fanbase, so a lot of OBS is overkill (though OBS is very easy to get running)
I've been thinking of getting into OBS for recording, but I know from experience that Discord works well for streaming, since I have friends who will say "Hey, watch me play this." at random, and moments later, he's streaming his session.
 

Jamesl91

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I've been thinking of getting into OBS for recording, but I know from experience that Discord works well for streaming, since I have friends who will say "Hey, watch me play this." at random, and moments later, he's streaming his session.
We do not use Discord, however streaming to youtube is a handy way of sharing your screen, it also saves the video to your youtube channel after you've finished streaming
 

UnstopaPaul

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I've been thinking of getting into OBS for recording, but I know from experience that Discord works well for streaming, since I have friends who will say "Hey, watch me play this." at random, and moments later, he's streaming his session.
discords great too, and *cough* allows a lot of things that teamspeak doesn't
 

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