Project CARS 3 Chit Chat (1 Viewer)

Jonno

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Lol
"Bell also claims Project CARS 3 will be an ambitious title, with the plan being to “blow anything else, planned by anyone else, out of the water"
im sure they said that about pc1 and pc2 but im still waiting to see it lol..
 

steveg200

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It might be third time lucky . It might actually work properly
 

Puffpirat

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I hope they just calibrate and fine tune what they have properly. There are just so many different features in pc2, it had to lack in detail. But it has content for years.

They don’t even need to add much, maybe make the engine a bit prettier, few new cars to please the audience but focus on the core mechanics of a multiplayer racing game.

Tires, live track, weather... so much potential to be lifted.
 

steveg200

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I hope they just calibrate and fine tune what they have properly. There are just so many different features in pc2, it had to lack in detail. But it has content for years.

They don’t even need to add much, maybe make the engine a bit prettier, few new cars to please the audience but focus on the core mechanics of a multiplayer racing game.

Tires, live track, weather... so much potential to be lifted.


I think your right @Puffpirat . Just making a game which is stable would be great . And of coarse driver swaps
 

Cluck

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Whatever they do, I just hope they implement the "fully customisable units" in the next game. It was a constant (albeit minor) irritation that I was restricted to "imperial or metric", with no shared ground.
 

Cluck

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Trouble with expecting multiplayer to deliver what leagues like ours need is, when you look at the Steam stats, you'll realise that multiplayer isn't the reason people bought pCARS2. It likely won't be the reason that the bulk of players will want to buy pCARS3. From the inside, as in from a league perspective, it of course feels like multiplayer is the most important thing but we have to realise that we are the minority.

The only way I can see pCARS3 hitting it out of the park, in all areas, is if it is given a very long time to develop, not rushing any area any more than is absolutely critical. If it's going to launch with a huge roster of cars and circuits again, it needs that time for al those bits to be given the love and attention to detail it deserves. The sad truth is, that requires money and time, lots of it. From car and circuit licences, through developing that licensed content, through developing a solid game around that content and then testing, testing some more and then testing to hell and back.

I really wish SMS all the best and hope they do produce an absolute stunner of a game. Who knows, give me fully adjustable units of measurement and I might come out of sim-racing retirement ;)
 

steveg200

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Hopefully GTR3 will be the game project cars was supposed to be
 

Diluvian

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SimBin:
We see GTR3 as kind of the gateway. If people play it and love it, the next step would be RaceRoom. R3E is a solid simulation product, that’s not what GTR3 is going to be perceived as. It might fit the bill for some people, but it’s not going to be perceived as a ‘simulation’ title. There is a high expectation from all the sim racers that GTR3 is going to be a simulation product that appeals to that type of player only, it will certainly be fun as a sim racer, just like I have fun with a variety of other racing games in the genre.
I don't think this will be in any part the game project car was supposed to be.

I totally agree with @Puffpirat at all points :)
 
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steveg200

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I thought I read somewhere GTR3 was going to be a full on sim for the PC and more of an arcade style for the console's
 

Born2BSlow

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Trouble with expecting multiplayer to deliver what leagues like ours need is, when you look at the Steam stats, you'll realise that multiplayer isn't the reason people bought pCARS2. It likely won't be the reason that the bulk of players will want to buy pCARS3. From the inside, as in from a league perspective, it of course feels like multiplayer is the most important thing but we have to realise that we are the minority.

The only way I can see pCARS3 hitting it out of the park, in all areas, is if it is given a very long time to develop, not rushing any area any more than is absolutely critical. If it's going to launch with a huge roster of cars and circuits again, it needs that time for al those bits to be given the love and attention to detail it deserves. The sad truth is, that requires money and time, lots of it. From car and circuit licences, through developing that licensed content, through developing a solid game around that content and then testing, testing some more and then testing to hell and back.

I really wish SMS all the best and hope they do produce an absolute stunner of a game. Who knows, give me fully adjustable units of measurement and I might come out of sim-racing retirement ;)
Colour me suspicious, but you announce your retirement right before Pcars3 breaks cover...secret testing much old chap? ;)
 

Cluck

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Colour me suspicious, but you announce your retirement right before Pcars3 breaks cover...secret testing much old chap? ;)
Bit difficult to do that with no sim-racing kit :)

If SMS choose to do a WMD3, I wouldn't take part unless they absolutely insisted I join just to take the piss out of Tom Curtis. I wouldn't be able to do any proper testing of anything beyond seeing if stuff loaded, which really isn't a lot of use to anybody. My heart also isn't in it (sim racing) and combined with what's going on in life, in all honesty, I very much doubt I would take part in any capacity. It will be refreshing to sit in the wings just like everybody else, not knowing what's coming until it's actually out :)
 
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miagi

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Trouble with expecting multiplayer to deliver what leagues like ours need is, when you look at the Steam stats, you'll realise that multiplayer isn't the reason people bought pCARS2.
If you look at Steam-Achivments of PC2, you will see that the Number of ppl that actually played the SP longer than a few hours is small.

Earned your Rookie License 95.1%
Completed the first season 21.8%
Earned your Amateur License 3.1%
Earned your Pro-Am License 1.6%
Earned your Pro License 0.7%


Completed your first online race 23.3%

Nearly no one made it to the Pro-Am or Amateur License. And a minority that started SP finished first season. I claim 80% of the ppl that bought PC2 for the single player are not coming back for PC3. Also more ppl played online than finished the first season of the SP.

Main problem of PC2 is that it has no USP. Atleast no clear one. Live Track is invisible and the ambitious tire heat model is hurting the driving experience ore than it improves it.
 

Cluck

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The point I was making is that less than a quarter of people that have played the game have completed a single online race. That means over 75% of players have either never completed a single online race or have only taken part in non-ranked lobbies, which is the vast majority of players, whichever way you cut it. It also doesn't matter if those 25% are still playing the game, they still account for a minority of sales and do not make for a viable product that is heavily geared towards online players only.

The beauty of pCARS (1 and 2) is also what creates the biggest headache, I suspect, in terms of what to do for the next game - including winning over those that didn't enjoy pCARS1/2 for whatever reason. The open sandbox approach was appreciated by those that wanted to just get in an drive/race the cars. It was also, in equal measure, disliked by those who want a sense of achievement beyond the joy of racing. For the single-player aspect, I'd love a return of what Shift/Shift 2 provided, in terms of the "perfect corner", "nice drafting" stuff, things that silently taught you how to master things like racing lines but without being patronising, rather, making you feel good about learning. It looks like ACC has realised this. Leave all of the cars available to race online and in free practice but provide a much narrower selection of cars to start with in the career, giving players another thing to aim for. Of course, that will still alienate some but will hopefully engage more people to play for longer.

As for multiplayer, well, all of us here know what we want. First and foremost the code needs to be pretty damn solid but we must also be prepared for glitches in it (let's face it, even iRacing hasn't nailed it fully after all these years). Give us the ability to run large grids. Throw in driver swaps for endurance racing. Get more control over replays and increase the fidelity - at a basic level, all the replay needs is the driver inputs, leaving the replay to interpret those into a re-run of the race. But most importantly, test that code, test it again and test it a hundred times more for good measure.

Hate me all you want but I loved the single-player side of Shift (less so in Shift 2, though that's only because I had to do drift stuff and I despise drifting), it's what took me to the nogrip forum and seeing the birth of Project CARS. I honestly doubt I'll be returning to racing with a wheel etc, for many a year, so to a large extent it doesn't really bother me what pCARS3 (or whatever it ends up being) turns out to provide. I just hope that it gives sim racers something to enjoy, to keep this genre going :)
 

Diluvian

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I thought I read somewhere GTR3 was going to be a full on sim for the PC and more of an arcade style for the console's
Would be a weird strategy? Just for comepleteness, I cited from this interview at race department.
 

miagi

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In general I think what Shift1/2 and Grid1 did was okay or fine. However, time has passed and PC3 will need more than that to turn some heads. Look at the newest Gran Turismo. They turned away from what they were doing since PS1 era because they see that it doesn't catch ppl any more. I'm as feed up with this style of SP as I'm with Turn-Base-Combat in RPGs or Cover-Based-Shooting in FPS. Or look at NeedForSpeed, the last 3 games(Including a reboot) were a disaster, game and sales wise. SMS needs to do more than copy Shift to make the SP interesting. A deep Manager Mode could be something pretty straight forward that could save the mode from insignificance. Other ideas or concepts needs to be worked out, get tested, optimized and polished to work, and I don't recall anyone in SMS having the skills or interest to do so.

As for multiplayer, well, all of us here know what we want. First and foremost the code needs to be pretty damn solid but we must also be prepared for glitches in it (let's face it, even iRacing hasn't nailed it fully after all these years). Give us the ability to run large grids. Throw in driver swaps for endurance racing. Get more control over replays and increase the fidelity - at a basic level, all the replay needs is the driver inputs, leaving the replay to interpret those into a re-run of the race. But most importantly, test that code, test it again and test it a hundred times more for good measure.
Now we are talking :D
StarCraft, Warcraft3, Dota or LOL were successful MP-Games because they had appeal to a top level competition. And if a game is good for top level competition it's good enough for casual gaming. Like Chess and tick tack toe, one is complex and well balanced enough to appeal to highest levels of competition, the other one quickly loses appeal as the competition level rises. PC2 could have been that game that appeals to the top and is great for caual racing too, but with a few certain decisions from the lead of SMS and a few important features that again felt under the table, PC2 is just tick tack toe.
 

Ben Watkinson

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Lol
"Bell also claims Project CARS 3 will be an ambitious title, with the plan being to “blow anything else, planned by anyone else, out of the water"
im sure they said that about pc1 and pc2 but im still waiting to see it lol..
I remember them saying that, with pc1 getting delayed a few times, i didnt see much difference in either of them, to me the cars felt the same, graphics wise not that much difference, but online with licences was the only difference.
 

SlowBloke

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Personally I cant wait !

IMO less scope is probably not a bad thing as Im not surprised we had a few hiccups with so many features. However I definitely do not want a single series like ACC - that would not keep me for long.....

My main wishes

All tracks to have a similar level quality of road feel (ie Oulton Park, Bathurst, Bannochbrae, Watkins Glen, Fujj, Algarve, Red Bull Ring etc.. etc..

Brno, Imola, Spa, Indy road course, Ruapuna to name a few have no road feel coming through the FFB and a complete lack of tyre bite - it feels like Im on ball bearings as there is always some sensation of slide regardless of tyre / track temps.....

Also Le Mans has 2 distinct places where FFB just seems to disappear coming out of the chicanes on the back straight otherwise Le Mans feels great.

Multiplayer - we need much better filtering / sorting options.

Make setup saving / loading with readable files that can be shared via email etc...

Expand the race engineer to be more track / weather specific and include diffs / dampers etc..

Rework the pitstop functionality and add a strategy helper like the race engineer.... after all its the teams doing most of the tech / planning stuff not the driver

Maybe have pitstop options to let the teams decide for you so all you have to do is come in and they calculate fuel / tyres.

As it is that stuff is just too much for me and I just cant get into it.

AI
- rolling starts - stop the quirky movements at the start of the race before the green light
- difficulty % needs to be consistent across the classes
- High DF bends / corners - AI still has way more speed than player resulting in hefty bumping that takes me off the track - ie Oulton Park Island Bend / Mugello Arrabbiata2 / Bathurst Skyline to the esses.
 

Cluck

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The AI is one area that would need a big amount of time spent on it. In an ideal scenario, every car and car class would have a unique AI system set up for it. Combine that with an improved tyre model for the AI cars and you will get a much better experience racing against them. I tell you what, though, I wouldn't want to have to code AI, because no matter what you do, some people will complain it is unrealistic and you will almost certainly always have moments where it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. On top of that, it is going to use some processing power to deliver a more realistic AI experience and that will, inevitably, mean a sacrifice somewhere else.

Where pCARS2 succeeded, for me, was that the sum of its parts was absolutely better than any other package out there. Sure, RRRE is supposed to be the benchmark for audio (personaly, I found it immensely distracting). rF2 is reportedly the benchmark for FFB. iRacing is generally regarded as the benchmark for the multiplayer experience. But all of the others fall down in other aspects too, be it limited base content or lacking basic features like tyre pressures. For all the faults of pCARS1 and 2, they have undoubtedly rocked the sim-racing world. A real-time lighting system capable of a proper 24-hour day/night cycle, a cutting-edge dynamic tyre model, a track that evolves not just in the dry but in the wet and so on. Sure, not all of the things worked flawlessly but show me any product that gets it right, 1st time, and I'll buy a hat and eat it. Did SMS bite off more than they can chew? Possibly, but as the saying goes, you can't make an omelette unless you break a few eggs.

rFactor2 now has working weather and a day/night cycle
iRacing likewise (albeit no rain IIRC)
ACC has a physics and tyre-model check list that looks every inch a carbon-copy of what pCARS1/2 did before it

Sure, some of those things might have happened without pCARS1/2 but we can't know that. Maybe they would have implemented them in time but the point is, SMS got there first, SMS were the pioneers. Hate the things they got wrong all you like but you cannot deny that we, the ones that love sim-racing, are in a better place today than we were 7 years ago and some of that has to be because of what pCARS1 and 2 did first :).

Now, can pCARS3 bring enough 'revolution' to the sim genre to move things forward again? I don't have the capacity to think "what could they do, that hasn't been done?" so only time will tell. I know one thing though:

- If SMS play it safe and produce a solid, rock-solid, reliable and stable game, with a long list of future DLC, some sections of the sim-racing community will hate them for releasing "a bare bones product and just re-treading old ground, whilst also price-gouging its customers with DLC" and would rather have seen them do something new. Go to next point.

- If SMS push the boat out, again, and move the genre forward yet again with an ambitious but flawed game-changer, some sections of the sim-racing community will hate them for doing so and wished they'd played it safe. See previous point ;)


Before anybody accuses me of being a fanboy or some blinded idiot, I just play what I enjoy playing. If I don't like something, I won't play it and I'll play something else that I do enjoy. Games are an escape, something to take our minds off the world for a short while, much the same as listening to some music, watching a movie, reading a book, going for a walk etc etc. If I don't like a CD, I'll stop listening to it. If I don't like the film I'm watching, I'll stop watching it. I have a long list of games in Steam that I've tried and will never look at again (not just racing sims). Life's far too short to get so worked up over a piece of entertainment. There's a reason I didn't play most other sims and it's simply that they didn't excite me in the way pCARS1 and 2 did. There's a reason I never finished Quake 4, it bored me beyond mere words.

All that matters, at the finish line, is that this genre keeps moving forward, keeps pursuing ever greater levels of fidelity and realism to give us, the players, a small taste of what it's like to sit in a racing car, on a race track, surrounded by our heroes :)
 

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