Project CARS 2 The Self Improvement Thread :) (2 Viewers)

[Darksi]

Question:How do others tackle this? Do you practice "off line" when preparing for a track?

Normally we are on The Practice server or in a peer to peer practicing. Best thing to do is drop onto Teamspeak and see if anyone is around and just ask. Also, don't worry if it doesn't look like we are racing as we may swap to race if someone else is interested anyway.

 

[Taorminator]

@The Breeze great advice. Reasonably familiar with the learning curve - In a past life I fenced for my country, so this resonates a lot - it got to the point when you would celebrate when you had a terrible week of "not being able to do anything", because you knew that meant your brain was internalising the learning.

I probably do need to focus my efforts on the key corners (those that lead into the longest straights), improving these I assume delivers the best returns

I love having the RSR planned races - it's exactly how I'm learning new cars and tracks (the earlier the race is put up the better for me, as I have furthest to climb - thanks admins for putting up the entire of Feb ). This is the best motivator I have for focused learning (rather than playing turn-one-car-murder on public lobby).

Looking back on some of my race mistakes, they mostly happen not because I had to swerve to avoid as much as a minor line change to ensure I didn't get near someone else getting off line ahead. This gets me off line, and shifts the car weight to somewhere unexpected. It seems to be this that leads to me going off most (and looking stupid as I crash miles away from anything that might appear dangerous).

Question:How do others tackle this? Do you practice "off line" when preparing for a track?

I would assume over time that my "trained" reactions will become better and I will not throw the weight around so much. I try to do a few races with the AI so I can see what off-line feels like, but it's really not the same.

Of course you can train offline as you are more likely to have better focus, sometimes there might be distracting chatter during group practice. BUT you might unlock 1 second or so by receiving advice or following the racing line of a fellow RSR driver I do both honnestly. Regarding car reactions, be as smooth as possible and anticipate (if you brake hard at the top of a hill you are sure to lock for example). Try to be aware of the effect of mass transfer, if your rear is compressed you will get understeer if your input increase this effect, if your front is compressed be careful of oversteer (I know that for sure as I nearly wrecked my car that way). Adapt accordingly then

 

[miagi]

Hello I would like to write something in this thread too! Without having read all the other posts thru I just like to point out a few things.

Most important and most basic thing is something every racer with certain experience does without thinking about it.
"Look to Apex", you go where you look. You look on the apex, you will hit the apex or be a bit to the outside from the apex. You look further to the inside(on the grass), you will surely hit the apex. Sometimes you have a brake mark on the outside and because of that might fail to look properly to the inside apex, you will experience an inconsistency in line in this corner.
Look to apex is the very basic but can also be a tool. First check every now and then if you still focusing right. If you have trouble hitting certain apexes, check where you are looking and if needed, look further to the inside than the kerb for example.
DON'T LOOK AT SPINNING CARS! Because you will drive into them. Always look at the gap that the spinning car leaves and immediately brake when a situation gets hairy.

Patrice is inevitable. As a rookie, you stuffed your head with lots of informations and How to's and To Do's but that doesn't mean you can do it (right away). You need to get there. Check replays or your own ghost, think about what you need to improve, this is the difficult part. If you have that, settle down and think what part or corner or aspect of the track or your driving you want to improve most. Reduce the number of issues or improvements to the 1 or 2 most important and focus to only achieve that 1-2 in the next lap resp. next session. If you have that covered move on. If you go into the lap trying to improve the line of 1 corner, the look to apex in the next, the brake point of 2 other corners, the exit of another corner and the minimum speed in another corner, everything will blur together and you will not improve. Focus on 1 or 2 things. An experienced racer can increase the number to 4 - 6 maybe and achieving 3-5 directly. And as you progress the "improvements" become more details than in the beginning. If you don't know what to improve try some new things, new lines, later brake points, only lifting at certain corners and so on, but always one by one. If you think the car is on the limit of pace it can do, you will not be able to improve.

When you finally go into practising and making setups. First thing you do with a setup is adjusting the car so that you can feel comfortable with the car and aren't scared. If you have that you need to practice. You need a decent and consistence pace first to properly test setups for pace. Just as an example if Cluck drives 1:55.0 with default setup and you are stuck at 2:00.xx times, it's a waste of time to try to improve thru setup. You're not pushing the car enough. Find time on track, try different lines, watch some ghosts of faster guys. Try being more aggressive, try to be more smooth, see what works for you the car and the track. Also if your lap times varies more than 0.3s on a 1:30s lap, it will be difficult to make a clue of improvements by setup.
One last advice when it finally comes to gaining time by setups. I warn you to do the typical rookie mistake. The mistake goes like this: You start with a car you like and know the track and feel good with it. You improve it bit by bit, by making the car stiffer, more edgy and more dangerous to drive. Pace goes up but it gets more difficult to drive. But as long as you don't spin out too often you convince yourself to think you will perform better with it in the race as you are now relatively close to the quick lap times. As an example, let's say Puffpirat does a 1:30.0 in TT and you can squeeze a 1:30.1. Now it goes into the race. You have your quick setup but you are also more nervous than in the practice session. The setup is also quite nervous. You get more afraid of spinning out and because of that you don't push the car as in the TT or Practice session. Because of that in the race your lap time drops to 1:30.69 on avg. while Puffpirat is driving 1:30.1 to 1:30.2 every lap.
As a rookie you are always more nervous and less confident than in a practice session. If the car doesn't feel like you best friend in the practice session, there if no point trying to make the setup more edgy to squeeze out pace, because you will not have that pace in the race. Also you might over-correct a slide in the race and spin while in the practice sessions when that happened you stayed cool on the wheel.

 

[miagi]

I probably do need to focus my efforts on the key corners (those that lead into the longest straights), improving these I assume delivers the best returns

Depends on the corner before the straight. On Bathurst before on of the longest straights, the dipper is so stupid that barely a difference can be made even though the straight afterwords is super long. Eau Roughe and T2-3 in Hockenheim GP can cost or bring 2-4 tenths on a good line and exit of the corner before. Cars like the Ginetta Junior need high minumum speed to perform better on the following straight. With more powerful cars it shifts more towards how early you can hit the throttle. Gaining time into the corner is best learned with a low power car like the Ginetta Junior.

I love having the RSR planned races - it's exactly how I'm learning new cars and tracks (the earlier the race is put up the better for me, as I have furthest to climb - thanks admins for putting up the entire of Feb ). This is the best motivator I have for focused learning (rather than playing turn-one-car-murder on public lobby).

Looking back on some of my race mistakes, they mostly happen not because I had to swerve to avoid as much as a minor line change to ensure I didn't get near someone else getting off line ahead. This gets me off line, and shifts the car weight to somewhere unexpected. It seems to be this that leads to me going off most (and looking stupid as I crash miles away from anything that might appear dangerous).

I would say with some experience you stay cooler and know when touching another car will do less harm than trying a rushed evading move. Bumping the rear of another car slightly should not be too big of a problem for both cars. In a corner you can only evade to the outside, it is enough to open the steering to do so you don't need to steer to the outside. Generally with experience you plan better ahead what will happen, when/where driving errors are more likely where less. That is one reason why less trouble happens if more experienced drivers race each other. First of all non of them makes a huge mistake in the corner so all the cars around can plan ahead properly and it goes smooth. When a more experienced driver suddenly races a rookie it is also a different thing, with sometimes the more experienced driver thinking or saying:"What are you doing?!"
Unless we talk about specific incidents, that's about what I can say about it.

Question:How do others tackle this? Do you practice "off line" when preparing for a track?

I usually do some TT to get on pace. TT saves some time because you spare the outlap and are directly in the temps. Then I do longer stints in TT to see if tires or brakes run into a heat problem. Then I might start to tweak setup, but that is me. I then quickly go into a Patrice or Quali Session with the exact settings of the event and to longer stints. Depending on track I try to to 5-10 laps per session and compare them in the profiler. Only if I'm quicker over few laps with the newest setup it really is quicker. Sometimes if can be even a good idea to do a practice race with AI.

 

[SBart_uk]

Just as an example if Cluck drives 1:55.0 with default setup and you are stuck at 2:00.xx times, it's a waste of time to try to improve thru setup.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong...I could never hope to match Clucks default setup times on most tracks as the defaults are the complete opposite of my driving style and I cant/don't want to deal with that much understeer. I cant argue with the vid post it was a pretty big error but I've come to the conclusion that getting annoyed with people for a single mistake isn't worth it. I did it in the Formula C race at Indy. And I havn't seen that guy racing with RSR since then, So kind of regret posting about it as it was just a single incident and doesn't seem so important now.

 

[Nighttiger]

I'm sorry but this is just wrong...I could never hope to match Clucks default setup times on most tracks as the defaults are the complete opposite of my driving style and I cant/don't want to deal with that much understeer. I cant argue with the vid post it was a pretty big error but I've come to the conclusion that getting annoyed with people for a single mistake isn't worth it. I did it in the Formula C race at Indy. And I havn't seen that guy racing with RSR since then, So kind of regret posting about it as it was just a single incident and doesn't seem so important now.

I think it is also more a matter of, are you able to run those laptimes consistently. If you are unable to drive consistent laps with a car then the most gains are not being gained by setup but by your driving skill. In this scenario I assume that you can drive decent laps with the default setup (so not pushing it to the ultimate max).

 

[The Breeze]

Try being more aggressive, try to be more smooth

I would say 'assertive'

https://speedsecrets.com/driving-tips/racecraft-be-assertive-not-aggressive/

More details on this in Ross Bentley's book Ultimate Speed Secrets... well you can read the part for free if you google for 'racing driver assertive vs aggressive'

 

[UnstopaPaul]

I would say 'assertive'

https://speedsecrets.com/driving-tips/racecraft-be-assertive-not-aggressive/

More details on this in Ross Bentley's book Ultimate Speed Secrets... well you can read the part for free if you google for 'racing driver assertive vs aggressive'

The irony is that this is probably why I hit @miagi in last night's Procar race. There was a bit of Yes/No/Yes to driving through the gap...which became less of a gap...

I'll definitely check out the tips, thanks

 

[Cluck]

@UnstopaPaul , as I understand it, you were a lap down. I would like to remind you of our driving standards:

1.4.4 - If you are going faster than a car that has lapped you, do not attempt to unlap yourself without permission from the driver in front - eg by request on TeamSpeak

The only exception to this rule is if the car is off track.

Going for a gap when you're racing for position, that's fine (though I would argue not in the way you did last night* ). Going for a gap to unlap yourself, that's not fine.

We've all been there though, doing something you're not supposed to, in the heat of the race, the only thing that matters is that you learn from it



* or the way I did!

 

[UnstopaPaul]

yup - I'm aware I made a mistake. I'm quite clear on the rule, but I had no idea what the position of the 2 cars sprinkled on the track were. Those corners are pretty difficult (for me) to get right at all, and I was avoiding left(?) then right to try not to hit someone as well. The chances of me checking the relative board were sadly quite small.

I would argue though that that rule is in question if the car is in fact stationary (which it appeared to me when I decided on proceeding). Should I just stop dead on track if the car ahead is a lap ahead (assuming I knew)? I surely have as much risk of causing an accident behind by doing this. Should I have deliberately gone off track on the chicane? Perhaps that might actually have been the safest course of action all round in the circumstances. I don't have much driving time, and the think time was not very much in that situation. Of course...its easy watching a replay to have as much think time as you like

EDIT: If anyone knows how to make the relative board appear clearly in VR let me know. It's pretty unreadable unless right in front of your eyes.

 

[Hujkis]

I can only recommend Scott Mansel's Driver University.

 

[Topsie]

yup - I'm aware I made a mistake. I'm quite clear on the rule, but I had no idea what the position of the 2 cars sprinkled on the track were. Those corners are pretty difficult (for me) to get right at all, and I was avoiding left(?) then right to try not to hit someone as well. The chances of me checking the relative board were sadly quite small.

I would argue though that that rule is in question if the car is in fact stationary (which it appeared to me when I decided on proceeding). Should I just stop dead on track if the car ahead is a lap ahead (assuming I knew)? I surely have as much risk of causing an accident behind by doing this. Should I have deliberately gone off track on the chicane? Perhaps that might actually have been the safest course of action all round in the circumstances. I don't have much driving time, and the think time was not very much in that situation. Of course...its easy watching a replay to have as much think time as you like

EDIT: If anyone knows how to make the relative board appear clearly in VR let me know. It's pretty unreadable unless right in front of your eyes.

I have my relative just off to the left. You have to move your head to see...but easy to do

 

[UnstopaPaul]

I have my relative just off to the left. You have to move your head to see...but easy to do

Do you mean like 90 desgrees? mine's on the left most corner, but its far too fuzzy unless I really take my eyes of the road.. I'm thinking its time to upgrade from the GTX 980 so I can superscale a bit and see it clearly

 

[Darksi]

Do you mean like 90 desgrees? mine's on the left most corner, but its far too fuzzy unless I really take my eyes of the road.. I'm thinking its time to upgrade from the GTX 980 so I can superscale a bit and see it clearly

You can move the box to be closer in if it will help you. I can go through this with you tonight. It might need some playing around to get the ideal spot for you.

 

[UnstopaPaul]

You can move the box to be closer in if it will help you. I can go through this with you tonight. It might need some playing around to get the ideal spot for you.

I can move it, but it its close enough to be readable it's in the way.

 

[Tom]

Yet another video for you Paul

 

[The Wayfaerer]

@Battenberg i also wanted to post that one in here, but it seems i was a bit too slow xD

 

[Cluck]

Yet another video for you Paul

The obvious response to that video is ....

 

[UnstopaPaul]

Yet another video for you Paul

Nice one. Since I've been in the game I've been looking for how to structure practice. @SBart_uk is kindly helping out with a little analysis to give that structure and we've identified my braking as the first thing to sort (my braking is not 100% with only the required let-off as lockup starts, its more 90%>100%>75% as I undercook then overcook). Second focus will be on using a reasonably early braking marker and focusing purely on the good exit.

I have step 1 of my personal plan...I'm happy

 

[FuBii]

Braking is one of the most important skills you need, anyone can accelerate, but the majority of the laptime is found under braking.
One of my first setup changes is fiddling with the brake pressure & bias. Take the car onto the longest straight on the track, brake as hard as possible, if you lock up, reduce the pressure 2%. try again. Lock up again, knock the bias rearwards a 1%. keep going till the fronts stop locking &/ or the rear snatches.. PITA but it's better than sailing into the gravel or another car, provided you hit your marker
Of course this is the way I do it, feel free to ignore it entirely